Just for Governors: Bullying

0001 10:00:13:02 10:00:16:17

(narrator) In today's programme,

our team of real governors

0002 10:00:16:17 10:00:20:01

will be tackling a hypothetical

but realistic situation

0003 10:00:20:01 10:00:22:18

as it develops in a school.

0004 10:00:22:18 10:00:26:24

Today's challenging dilemma involves

an alleged incident of bullying,

0005 10:00:26:24 10:00:30:03

and the handling

of parental complaints.

0006 10:00:30:03 10:00:32:02

Meet the panel.

0007 10:00:32:02 10:00:37:04

Eunice Evans, a chair of governors,

with over 15 years' experience.

0008 10:00:37:04 10:00:41:24

Andy Child, an LEA governor

with nine years' experience.

0009 10:00:41:24 10:00:45:17

And Jim Jones, a foundation

and former parent governor

0010 10:00:45:17 10:00:49:12

with 12 years' experience,

including three as chair.

0011 10:00:49:12 10:00:52:08

Assessing the governors' performance

is Paul McGann,

0012 10:00:52:08 10:00:55:20

an education officer

with 15 years of experience

0013 10:00:55:20 10:00:57:21

supporting and training governors

0014 10:00:57:21 10:01:00:07

and troubleshooting problems

in schools.

0015 10:01:00:07 10:01:04:24

It's time to discover just how

our panel will handle the challenge.

0016 10:01:08:10 10:01:11:22

A female pupil has been

quiet and withdrawn in lessons,

0017 10:01:11:22 10:01:17:00

but she's unwilling to talk about

anything when asked by her teacher.

0018 10:01:18:05 10:01:21:13

Several weeks later,

the girl's mother informs the head

0019 10:01:21:13 10:01:26:19

that her child has become reluctant

to go to school in the mornings.

0020 10:01:26:19 10:01:30:05

The parent claims

the child must be being bullied,

0021 10:01:30:05 10:01:34:19

and questions the effectiveness

of the school's antibullying policy.

0022 10:01:36:05 10:01:37:19

The mother says

0023 10:01:37:19 10:01:41:12

it's the school's responsibility

to find out what's going on,

0024 10:01:41:12 10:01:46:11

but the girl is reluctant to give

any details to any member of staff.

0025 10:01:49:17 10:01:54:08

I think handling

parents' complaints is important,

0026 10:01:54:08 10:01:58:01

and the school does need to have

processes and procedures in place.

0027 10:01:58:01 10:02:01:07

It's who spotted this, and

whether they kept it within school,

0028 10:02:01:07 10:02:03:16

or whether they

brought the parents in early.

0029 10:02:03:16 10:02:08:00

Would a form tutor be in the

position to contact parents saying:

0030 10:02:08:00 10:02:10:00

"I'm a bit worried

about your child"?

0031 10:02:10:00 10:02:15:13

I think if the tutor

sees a serious change in a pupil,

0032 10:02:15:13 10:02:20:18

it's her duty to flag something up,

certainly to share it with someone.

0033 10:02:20:18 10:02:23:14

Maybe ask - depends

on the experience of the tutor -

0034 10:02:23:14 10:02:28:19

"Should I share this with the

parents?" Not keep it to herself.

0035 10:02:28:19 10:02:31:18

I guess this brings up how

the parents relate to the school -

0036 10:02:31:18 10:02:34:01

the parent body

communicates with the school.

0037 10:02:34:01 10:02:36:05

If you're a school

that builds barriers,

0038 10:02:36:05 10:02:39:11

you're not going to get

much contact until it's got bad.

0039 10:02:39:11 10:02:44:20

An open school will get early

contact with low-level problems,

0040 10:02:44:20 10:02:47:17

with the chance to do

something about it.

0041 10:02:47:17 10:02:51:13

Has the school told parents

how to contact them?

0042 10:02:51:13 10:02:54:22

When to phone, who to speak to,

who they'll be put through to.

0043 10:02:54:22 10:02:58:08

And you've got to be careful

not to raise expectations

0044 10:02:58:08 10:03:02:07

that a parent has instant access

to a headteacher any point in time,

0045 10:03:02:07 10:03:03:18

between eight and five.

0046 10:03:03:18 10:03:08:23

Parents should always have received

a copy of the bullying policy,

0047 10:03:08:23 10:03:12:06

which addresses what to look for,

0048 10:03:13:13 10:03:16:19

what your child may be presenting

in behaviour

0049 10:03:16:19 10:03:18:17

that could be attributed to...

0050 10:03:18:17 10:03:21:06

That could be

put into the school prospectus.

0051 10:03:21:06 10:03:26:14

It is a partnership between the

child, the parents and the school.

0052 10:03:26:14 10:03:28:22

You cannot take one element out,

0053 10:03:28:22 10:03:31:19

and the whole blame

cannot rest with just one element.

0054 10:03:32:18 10:03:34:18

The governors are right to point out

0055 10:03:34:18 10:03:37:22

that a key determinant

of the success of this investigation

0056 10:03:37:22 10:03:39:23

will be the confidence

the parents have

0057 10:03:39:23 10:03:42:07

in the school's ability

to investigate.

0058 10:03:42:07 10:03:45:05

This will be determined

by the quality of the partnership

0059 10:03:45:05 10:03:48:06

that's developed

between the school and the parents.

0060 10:03:48:06 10:03:50:24

(narrator) The panel discuss

the possible causes

0061 10:03:50:24 10:03:53:09

of the girl's behaviour.

0062 10:03:53:09 10:03:56:09

It's the parents who are saying

she must be bullied.

0063 10:03:56:09 10:03:59:16

We're not getting information

about whether this is happening.

0064 10:03:59:16 10:04:01:18

Do we stick

to what we actually know,

0065 10:04:01:18 10:04:05:04

which is a quiet girl

who's now refusing to go to school,

0066 10:04:05:04 10:04:09:20

and the parents' assumption

that she must be being bullied?

0067 10:04:10:14 10:04:13:00

It could be something

outside the school.

0068 10:04:13:00 10:04:15:11

It could be something

inside the school.

0069 10:04:15:11 10:04:19:01

- It gets labelled bullying now.

- Yes.

0070 10:04:19:01 10:04:21:18

It's the easy tag to put on.

0071 10:04:21:18 10:04:25:14

The child's obviously not very

happy, he must be being bullied.

0072 10:04:25:14 10:04:31:02

What age was she? Is she hitting

puberty - is it that kind of stage?

0073 10:04:31:02 10:04:33:03

(Jim) The age of deep embarrassment.

0074 10:04:33:03 10:04:37:12

At the beginning of an investigation

of concerns raised by parents,

0075 10:04:37:12 10:04:41:10

it's important the school keeps

an open mind about possible causes.

0076 10:04:44:13 10:04:48:06

(narrator) Eventually, the pupil

admits that some of her friends

0077 10:04:48:06 10:04:51:08

have been sending her

offensive text messages.

0078 10:04:52:19 10:04:56:12

Teachers have complained about

mobiles being used in the classroom

0079 10:04:56:12 10:05:00:08

when the pupils are not supposed

to use them in school.

0080 10:05:01:08 10:05:03:18

The girl is adamant

0081 10:05:03:18 10:05:07:22

she doesn't want her friends

to be confronted about the issue.

0082 10:05:08:22 10:05:11:14

I'd like to know what

the school policy is on mobiles.

0083 10:05:11:14 10:05:16:17

- Absolutely.

- Are they banned entirely?

0084 10:05:16:17 10:05:20:23

Difficult one, though.

Parents give their children mobiles

0085 10:05:20:23 10:05:22:24

to keep them safe.

0086 10:05:22:24 10:05:27:00

And then the school says,

"You can't have them in school."

0087 10:05:27:00 10:05:29:18

It's not mobile phones,

it's how they're used.

0088 10:05:29:18 10:05:32:07

Many pupils would

take their phone to school

0089 10:05:32:07 10:05:36:01

and use it at appropriate times,

or never use it,

0090 10:05:36:01 10:05:38:17

it's a safety angle.

0091 10:05:38:17 10:05:41:13

But it's when it's brought

into play in this way.

0092 10:05:41:13 10:05:45:20

So if someone had written a note

and said, "Here. Read that",

0093 10:05:45:20 10:05:48:12

then that's just as bad

as texting them.

0094 10:05:48:12 10:05:51:12

I guess it's about

how absolute your rules are.

0095 10:05:51:12 10:05:55:00

Do you ban the presence of

mobile phones in your policy,

0096 10:05:55:00 10:05:59:08

so anyone found in possession of

a phone is against the school rules,

0097 10:05:59:08 10:06:01:08

or is it the use?

0098 10:06:01:08 10:06:03:13

Or is it inappropriate use?

0099 10:06:03:13 10:06:06:17

The trouble with a policy

if it's too absolute

0100 10:06:06:17 10:06:10:03

is, before too long,

someone's broken it,

0101 10:06:10:03 10:06:12:10

and you have to punish somebody

0102 10:06:12:10 10:06:16:14

for what may be a

very reasonable thing to have done.

0103 10:06:16:14 10:06:19:15

The governors are right

to focus on the behaviour itself

0104 10:06:19:15 10:06:21:15

rather than the source of it.

0105 10:06:21:15 10:06:23:11

By looking at existing policies,

0106 10:06:23:11 10:06:26:02

they may find behaviour

of this type is covered,

0107 10:06:26:02 10:06:28:12

without any specific mention

of mobiles.

0108 10:06:28:12 10:06:32:15

I think the school needs to respect

the confidentiality

0109 10:06:32:15 10:06:35:01

which the girl is asking for.

0110 10:06:35:01 10:06:39:06

Discreet inquiries can be made

through the form tutor,

0111 10:06:39:06 10:06:43:19

through other tutors or teachers

which the child encounters.

0112 10:06:43:19 10:06:47:06

And then build it up from there,

and take it step by step.

0113 10:06:48:03 10:06:52:23

Because the fallout of this

could be quite horrid for the child.

0114 10:06:52:23 10:06:56:05

We must remember that some pressure

has been applied to this girl

0115 10:06:56:05 10:06:58:04

to cough up.

0116 10:06:58:04 10:07:00:08

She hasn't volunteered this.

0117 10:07:00:08 10:07:02:11

She's not come forward

asking for help.

0118 10:07:02:11 10:07:07:14

She's been made to tell, in some way

or other, about what's happening.

0119 10:07:07:14 10:07:11:18

But you're right - how do you

protect her confidentiality?

0120 10:07:11:18 10:07:15:08

Who is sending these messages, which

the girl may be reluctant to state?

0121 10:07:15:08 10:07:19:20

That's starting an investigation,

which flags up there's something...

0122 10:07:19:20 10:07:22:12

Pupil confidentiality

is a very sensitive issue.

0123 10:07:22:12 10:07:24:14

Some things are so important

0124 10:07:24:14 10:07:26:21

it's impossible

to keep them confidential.

0125 10:07:26:21 10:07:28:21

But in most cases,

it should be possible

0126 10:07:28:21 10:07:31:14

for the school to find ways

of investigating concerns

0127 10:07:31:14 10:07:34:10

which maintain the confidence

of the pupil themselves.

0128 10:07:34:10 10:07:37:22

For instance, a generic assembly,

or by teachers raising the issue,

0129 10:07:37:22 10:07:41:05

thereby distancing the pupil

from the source of the inquiry,

0130 10:07:41:05 10:07:43:11

may lead to the matter

being dealt with

0131 10:07:43:11 10:07:46:06

without the pupil

feeling vulnerable.

0132 10:07:47:22 10:07:52:05

(narrator) The head confronts the

girl's friends, and they confess.

0133 10:07:52:05 10:07:54:19

However, they argue

it was meant to be a bit of fun,

0134 10:07:54:19 10:07:57:23

and they didn't know

they were upsetting anyone.

0135 10:08:02:03 10:08:05:22

The head and governors then receive

complaints from several parents

0136 10:08:05:22 10:08:09:11

that their children

have been unfairly interrogated

0137 10:08:09:11 10:08:12:14

and incorrectly labelled as bullies.

0138 10:08:14:10 10:08:17:24

But what exactly is meant

by the word "bullying"?

0139 10:08:17:24 10:08:21:15

She may be getting messages that

we would see as perfectly innocuous

0140 10:08:21:15 10:08:24:03

that she's interpreting

as bullying.

0141 10:08:24:03 10:08:28:13

A definition of "Are you being

bullied?" is if you think you are.

0142 10:08:28:13 10:08:31:12

And if she thinks she's being

bullied by these messages...

0143 10:08:31:12 10:08:35:03

Is that bullying, though? Are we

getting hyped up about the word?

0144 10:08:35:03 10:08:38:10

We're labelling everything

with "bullying".

0145 10:08:38:10 10:08:40:17

The press picks up on it,

parents pick up on it.

0146 10:08:40:17 10:08:43:16

- It becomes a spiral.

- Yes.

0147 10:08:43:16 10:08:46:21

But if you don't define

what bullying is,

0148 10:08:46:21 10:08:50:14

there's a risk that people

won't recognise it when it happens.

0149 10:08:50:14 10:08:52:10

It's about words like "respect".

0150 10:08:52:10 10:08:56:07

Respecting space, respecting

other people's views and opinions.

0151 10:08:56:07 10:08:59:22

And so "disrespect" would perhaps

be the word that's less emotive -

0152 10:08:59:22 10:09:02:15

there was an element of disrespect

in this behaviour.

0153 10:09:02:15 10:09:05:15

It might fit this quite well,

this particular scenario.

0154 10:09:05:15 10:09:09:06

They showed disrespect, or lack

of respect, for another person,

0155 10:09:09:06 10:09:13:08

and that is against the school ethos

and behaviour policy.

0156 10:09:13:08 10:09:17:10

Some things you can define,

you can say what isn't appropriate.

0157 10:09:17:10 10:09:21:08

And no matter how old the child is,

they do understand that.

0158 10:09:21:08 10:09:24:00

It needs to be said,

0159 10:09:24:00 10:09:28:04

because sometimes we're in danger

of not stating the obvious,

0160 10:09:28:04 10:09:31:07

and assuming that people understand.

0161 10:09:31:07 10:09:34:02

If you simply label

a type of behaviour as bullying,

0162 10:09:34:02 10:09:36:06

or label a particular person

as a bully,

0163 10:09:36:06 10:09:40:12

then it's likely to lead to a

defensive and a negative reaction.

0164 10:09:40:12 10:09:44:00

And this may inhibit the school's

ability to deal with the behaviour

0165 10:09:44:00 10:09:47:03

and the impact that behaviour

is having on the alleged victim.

0166 10:09:47:23 10:09:52:20

(narrator) The governors consider

the reaction of the parents.

0167 10:09:52:20 10:09:55:08

Any reasonable parent,

I would suggest,

0168 10:09:55:08 10:09:58:20

when faced with the evidence

of what had happened,

0169 10:09:58:20 10:10:03:20

would immediately say,

"Fine. That wasn't given to me."

0170 10:10:03:20 10:10:06:09

"You have dealt with it

appropriately,

0171 10:10:06:09 10:10:09:19

and I'll speak

to my child back at home."

0172 10:10:09:19 10:10:13:10

Assuming parents can be reasonable

when it comes to their children.

0173 10:10:13:10 10:10:16:05

They're reasonable

about other people's children,

0174 10:10:16:05 10:10:20:03

but when it's your own little one

coming home, you're thinking:

0175 10:10:20:03 10:10:22:19

"They've been put

in a place they shouldn't be in."

0176 10:10:22:19 10:10:28:06

Maybe it could have been averted

by more contact with the parents.

0177 10:10:28:06 10:10:34:06

Yes. I mean, this content of the

complaint is unfair interrogation.

0178 10:10:34:06 10:10:40:04

So, have we got a system of how

pupils should be interviewed?

0179 10:10:40:04 10:10:44:20

Would the parents have liked

to come in to be with their child

0180 10:10:44:20 10:10:47:13

while an interview took place?

0181 10:10:47:13 10:10:51:04

That's sounds a bit like

being interviewed by the police.

0182 10:10:51:04 10:10:56:13

But the parent would then have the

chance to be in with their daughter,

0183 10:10:56:13 10:10:58:18

and hear what the head had to say,

0184 10:10:58:18 10:11:01:23

and on the balance,

make their own opinion, as well.

0185 10:11:01:23 10:11:05:24

I think, as a parent, that's how

I would like to see it done.

0186 10:11:05:24 10:11:09:20

But if you do that for every case

of fairly low-level bullying,

0187 10:11:09:20 10:11:12:18

the head's going to be spending

all day seeing parents.

0188 10:11:12:18 10:11:15:07

In any investigation

of any complaint or concern,

0189 10:11:15:07 10:11:17:15

it's important

that the parents of the victim

0190 10:11:17:15 10:11:19:15

and the parents

of the perpetrators

0191 10:11:19:15 10:11:22:14

are kept fully informed

about the ongoing investigation,

0192 10:11:22:14 10:11:24:09

and the potential outcomes.

0193 10:11:24:09 10:11:27:15

This doesn't need to extend

to inviting both sets of parents in

0194 10:11:27:15 10:11:29:17

whenever any child is interviewed.

0195 10:11:29:17 10:11:33:13

It's important the school can

investigate thoroughly but quickly,

0196 10:11:33:13 10:11:36:15

to get to the bottom of the issue

as quickly as they can.

0197 10:11:36:15 10:11:39:01

(narrator) But what about

the governors?

0198 10:11:39:01 10:11:42:02

What should they be doing

in cases like this?

0199 10:11:42:02 10:11:46:01

Governors provide constructive

thinking, and challenge.

0200 10:11:46:01 10:11:49:16

So, why not come with ideas

which you've heard from parents

0201 10:11:49:16 10:11:52:21

or read in "The Times Ed"

or seen on the news?

0202 10:11:52:21 10:11:55:14

You're bringing

the outside element into school.

0203 10:11:55:14 10:11:58:07

That's one of the aspects

of governorship.

0204 10:11:58:07 10:12:00:10

As governors,

we really need to know

0205 10:12:00:10 10:12:04:23

that the policies and procedures

that we have in place really work.

0206 10:12:04:23 10:12:09:16

That they fit the scenarios

that happen in day-to-day school.

0207 10:12:09:16 10:12:12:18

I guess, in terms of a policy,

we'd want feedback.

0208 10:12:12:18 10:12:15:21

Is the policy that we've agreed

with the staff effective?

0209 10:12:15:21 10:12:18:00

Is it helping them?

0210 10:12:18:00 10:12:22:01

It could be,

do we get a summary of bullying,

0211 10:12:22:01 10:12:24:09

or whatever we want to call it?

0212 10:12:24:09 10:12:27:19

How many incidents have happened?

How have they been dealt with?

0213 10:12:27:19 10:12:30:20

The governors have reached

a very important conclusion.

0214 10:12:30:20 10:12:34:13

The role of the governing body here

is to assess whether the policies

0215 10:12:34:13 10:12:37:02

help the school

to deal with particular issues.

0216 10:12:37:02 10:12:40:06

A key question to ask at the end

of this particular problem is:

0217 10:12:40:06 10:12:43:10

Did our policy work? Did it make

things better for the school?

0218 10:12:43:10 10:12:45:15

In what ways

do we need to change our policy

0219 10:12:45:15 10:12:47:15

to make things better

for the future?

0220 10:12:50:16 10:12:52:11

Bullying is an emotive issue

0221 10:12:52:11 10:12:55:04

and all schools

will get concerns from parents

0222 10:12:55:04 10:12:57:14

which loosely come under

this general heading.

0223 10:12:57:14 10:13:00:09

If schools are to be successful

in dealing with this,

0224 10:13:00:09 10:13:03:10

it's important parents

have the confidence in the school

0225 10:13:03:10 10:13:06:10

that they will deal matters

fairly and thoroughly.

0226 10:13:06:10 10:13:10:02

This will be enhanced if the school

has communicated behaviour policies

0227 10:13:10:02 10:13:12:06

very clearly to parents in advance.

0228 10:13:12:06 10:13:15:22

Parents will have clear expectations

about the behaviour of pupils.

0229 10:13:15:22 10:13:17:22

It's important governors recognise

0230 10:13:17:22 10:13:20:09

that it's not possible

to change behaviour

0231 10:13:20:09 10:13:22:13

by a kneejerk reaction

to topical events -

0232 10:13:22:13 10:13:24:13

banning mobile phones, for example.

0233 10:13:24:13 10:13:27:12

It's the quality of the

relationships within the school,

0234 10:13:27:12 10:13:30:05

and the way in which

governors define the school ethos

0235 10:13:30:05 10:13:34:21

which will have a lasting impact on

the way pupils relate to each other.

0236 10:13:34:21 10:13:38:09

It's important to remember that

schools are places of education.

0237 10:13:38:09 10:13:41:16

Whatever the outcome

of the investigation,

0238 10:13:41:16 10:13:45:01

it's important that both the

alleged perpetrator and the victim

0239 10:13:45:01 10:13:47:19

have the opportunity

to learn from the experience,

0240 10:13:47:19 10:13:49:24

and that behaviour changes

as a result.

0241 10:13:55:01 10:13:58:01

Visiontext Subtitles:

Joanna Wilkinson

0242 10:13:58:01 10:14:00:01