January 2011 IEEE 11-11-0116-00-000s
IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs
Date: 2011-01-17
Author(s):
Name / Company / Address / Phone / Email
Guenael Strutt / Powerwave Technologies / 1801 E St Andrew Plan, Santa Ana, CA USA / +1-714-466-1792 /
Guido R. Hiertz / Philips / Riedel Communications GmbH & Co. KG, Uellendahler Str. 353, 42109 Wuppertal / +49-202-292-9987 /
Dee Denteneer / Philips / HTC 34; 5656 AE Eindhoven; The netherlands / +31 40 27 49743 /
Minutes
Session 1, Monday January 17th PM1 13:30-15:30, Hyatt Century Plaza Los Angeles, Calif., Room Governors I
Chairman Dee Denteneer (Philips) calls the meeting to order at 1:36 PM (2011-01-17T13:05-08:00).
The Chairman reminds all present to state their name and affiliation before they speak.
1:36 PM: Chairman introduces Vice Chair (Guido R. Hiertz, Philips). Chairman introduces Technical Editor (Kazuyuki Sakoda, Sony). Chairman introduces Recording Secretary (Guenael Strutt, Powerwave Technologies).
1:38 PM: Chairman presents 11-11/0010r1 (Agenda for 802.11 Task Group s)
1:41 PM: Chairman reads Slide 6 "Participants, Patent, and Duty to Inform" aloud, in its entirety. Chairman identifies “Patent Related Links” from slide 7 of the Agenda.
Chairman calls for potential essential patents (reads slide 8 aloud). No one responds to the call (1:43 PM) and no claims are brought forward.
1:43 PM: The Chairman reminds everyone to use the Automated Attendance Recording System and demonstrates how to use it.
The Chairman would like participants to all be “on one page” as we have again passed the Sponsor Ballot successfully.
Chairman reviews the agenda (11-11/0010r1).
1:49 PM: Approval of agenda (described in slide 12 of 11-11/0011r1)
Objections to approving by unanimous consent?
None
Agenda approved by unanimous consent
1:49 PM: Approval of minutes (slide 12 of 11-10/1250r1)
11-10/1323r0 Dallas meeting minutes
Objections to approving by unanimous consent?
None
Minutes approved by unanimous consent
11-11/0005r0 Munich Ad Hoc meeting minutes
Comment: The name of one of the participants is misspelt in the document: it should read “Norbert Vicari”
Objections to approving by unanimous consent?
None
Minutes approved by unanimous consent
11-10/1403r0 November 24 teleconference meeting minutes
Objections to approving by unanimous consent?
None
Minutes approved by unanimous consent
11-11/0004r0 December 9 teleconference meeting minutes
Objections to approving by unanimous consent?
None
Minutes approved by unanimous consent
11-11/0086r0 January 12 teleconference meeting minutes
Objections to approving by unanimous consent?
None
Minutes approved by unanimous consent
Chairman thinks we should recirculate after this (Los Angeles) meeting.
1:54 PM: Editor (Kazuyuki Sakoda, Sony) has collected comments in a spreadsheet (11/11-0027r1 being latest). SB1_Statistics tab already has a breakdown of the comments by category.
2:09 PM: Dee Denteneer (Philips) presents 11-11/0107r0
Discussion about a timeline for the group (Slides 2 & 3). Kazuyuki Sakoda (Sony) suggests that we do not rush into new Sponsor Ballot because comments are not necessary put to rest when resolved in haste. Michael Bahr (Siemens) also does not think that we should go to recirculation Sponsor Ballot. Dan Harkins (Aruba Networks) thinks that all security comments get resolved. Jarkko Kneckt (Nokia) thinks that all power management comments can be resolved.
Dee presents different scenarios (2:29 PM), including Scenario 1 (Slide 8), Scenario 2 (Slide 9), Scenario 3 (Slide 10).
Straw poll: Is four months (mid January 2011 to mid May 2011) enough to satisfactorily complete the Draft basing ourselves on 802.11-2007?
Yes: 4, No: 0, Abstain: 8
Kazuyuki would like to informally meet with participants Tuesday PM1.
2:50 PM Kazuyuki Sakoda (Sony) presents 11-11/0101r0 (“MAC beaconing sync comment resolution”)
Chairman: we have reached the end of the session.
The Chairman recesses the meeting at 3:30 PM (2011-01-18T15:30-08:00).
Session 2, Monday January 17th EVE 19:30-21:30, Hyatt Century Plaza Los Angeles, Calif., Room Governors I
Chairman Dee Denteneer (Philips) calls the meeting to order at 7:41 PM (2011-01-17T19:41-08:00).
7:42 PM: Chairman introduces Vice Chair (Guido R. Hiertz, Philips). Chairman introduces Technical Editor (Kazuyuki Sakoda, Sony). Chairman introduces Recording Secretary (Guenael Strutt, Powerwave Technologies).
7:42 PM: Chairman presents 11-11/0010r1 (Agenda for 802.11 Task Group s)
Chairman calls for potential essential patents (reads slide 8 aloud). No one responds to the call (7:43 PM) and no claims are brought forward.
The discussion tonight is focused on sequencing the 802.11 amendments.
Bruce Kraemer (Marvell Semiconductors) asks who will be attending the editors’ meeting. The Editor (Kazuyuki Sakoda, Sony) will be present the following morning, as will be Dee Denteneer and Guido Hiertz.
Dorothy Stanley (Aruba Networks) asks to see the expected timeline for 802.11s.
7:46 PM: Dee Denteneer (Philips) presents 11-11/0107r1
The third sponsor ballot is what we are heading for.
Bruce Kramer (Marvell Semiconductors): what is missing is a date for publication.
Dee present different options. Scenario 2 (Slide 9) mentions a total of three recirculations. The EC would not approve this schedule. May 6 is the date one has to meet to be on the RevCOM agenda.
Bruce: 11 has scheduled requests for f2f meetings, but that is not actually required.
Andrew Myles (Cisco): We should think about participating in JTC1 as early as possible, so that we can have a better chance of addressing WAPI. This is not a technical concern, just a procedural one.
It is asked what the confidence level is in these various timelines. Dee Denteneer (Philips) replies that the scenario 1 is considered to be a conservative scenario, and that there is, in this scenario, some additional slack time in the June – July time frame to allow for additional recirculations. Therefore, the TGs CRC has expressed unanimous confidence that they can meet this schedule. Dorothy Stanley (Aruba Networks) likewise confirms the confidence of the current view of the REVmb timeline.
Bruce asks what the relative value is of bringing either of the amendments to the market early.
The benefit of 802.11s is that it addresses some of the security problems found in WPA (Dan Harkins, Aruba Networks). Dee Denteneer (Philips) adds that there is market demand for mesh in the area of the smart grid. The important part is to get the standard published, which may take another year (Dorothy Stanley, Aruba Networks).
How does SAE integration impact REVmb? Once 802.11s is published, SAE becomes available for the marketplace, independently of the integration aspect.
It’s too early to say that REVmb won’t finish earlier than 802.11s. REVmb is going to be busy integrating v and u, which is a lot of work.
Reviewing the current timelines for REVmb and for mesh, the value of getting mesh to market, as well as the commitment of the TGs CRC to meet their schedule, the meeting concludes that, by default, mesh should go before REVmb.
However, the progress of TGs against its predicted schedule, should be carefully gauged as there may still be many challenges ahead. In particular, according to the current timeline, TGs should be almost done by the May meeting. Therefore, the ordering of the amendments should be revisited by the May meeting to review this current decision.
The Chairman recesses the meeting at 9:01 PM (2011-01-17T21:01-08:00).
Session 3, Tuesday January 18th AM1 08:00-10:00, Hyatt Century Plaza Los Angeles, Calif., Room Governors I
Chairman Dee Denteneer (Philips) calls the meeting to order at 8:09 AM (2011-01-18T08:09-08:00).
8:09 AM: Chairman introduces Vice Chair (Guido R. Hiertz, Philips). Chairman introduces Technical Editor (Kazuyuki Sakoda, Sony). Chairman introduces Recording Secretary (Guenael Strutt, Powerwave Technologies).
8:11 AM: Chairman presents 11-11/0010r1 (Agenda for 802.11 Task Group s)
Chairman calls for potential essential patents (reads slide 8 aloud). No one responds to the call (8:12 AM) and no claims are brought forward.
Chairman reminds all to claim attendance for the session.
There is one presentation from Ivan Pustogarov (IITP RAS). We will then proceed to comment resolution.
Other contributions added to the agenda are from Jarkko Kneckt, Nokia (11-11/0105r0 11-11/0128r0)
8:15 PM: Ivan Pustogarov (IITP RAS) presents 11-11/0065r3 (“GCR for mesh”)
Ganesh Venkatesan (Intel): there is a claim that the mechanism will work with 802.11s, but is that true?
Guido Hiertz (Philips): TGs does not specify anything with respect to traffic classes; that was done on purpose.
Ivan: 802.11v already accepted the TSPEC, TCLAS elements.
Michael Bahr (Siemens): we could use TCLAS element if it is limited to using the functionality within the mesh.
Alex Ashley (NDS Ltd): would the scheduling part of the GCR exchange be meaningful for meshes? Ivan: text is presented to identify a scheduled mesh service period for each GCR-SP start time.
Ganesh: does mesh need this mechanism where groupcast is sent throughout the beacon period vs just in DTIM?
Kazuyuki Sakoda (Sony): multicast reliability is not addressed in 802.11s, so this is a welcome addition.
Jarkko Kneckt (Nokia): 11s should have the same mechanisms as infrastructure networks.
Qi Wang (Broadcom): there are already concerns about groupcast storms, this mechanism would make it even worse.
Guido: a smart implementation would transport everything via unicast over the mesh and reconvert to broadcast at the edge of the mesh.
Alexander Safonov (IITP RAS): multihop GCR is probably out of scope. This method is applicable for one-hop transport.
Kaz: we need to be careful adding TSPEC to 802.11s, because there may be interactions we originally eliminated because they could conflict.
9:31 PM Kazuyuki Sakoda (Sony) presents 11-11/0101r0 (“MAC beaconing sync comment resolution”)
The Chairman recesses the meeting at 9:59 AM (2011-01-18T09:59-08:00).
Session 4, Tuesday January 18th AM2 10:30-12:30, Hyatt Century Plaza Los Angeles, CA, Room Governors I
Chairman Dee Denteneer (Philips) calls the meeting to order at 10:31 AM (2011-01-18T10:31-08:00).
10:31 AM: Chairman presents 11-11/0010r1 (Agenda for 802.11 Task Group s)
Chairman reminds everyone to use the Automated Attendance Recording System.
Chairman calls for potential essential patents (reads slide 8 aloud). No one responds to the call (10:32 AM) and no claims are brought forward.
Next presentation is Dan Harkins.
10:34 AM Dan Harkins (Aruba Networks) presents 11-11/0027r1 (sponsor ballot 1st recirc security comments)
“Shall” cannot be used as a part of a note – to be normative, the text should not be in a note. (CID 1013).
Chairman reminds attendees that comments can be resolved by participants in-between meetings.
The Chairman recesses the meeting at 11:16 AM (2011-01-18T11:16-08:00).
Session 5, Thursday January 19th AM2 16:00-18:00, Hyatt Century Plaza Los Angeles, CA, Room Governors I
The great Chairman Dee Denteneer (Philips) calls the meeting to order at 2011-01-19T16:05-08:00. The Chairman reminds all present to state their name and affiliation before they speak. The Chairman calls for potential essential patents. No one responds to the call (2011-01-19T16:06-08:00) and no claims are brought forward. The Chairman reminds all present to record their attendance.
The Chairman explains the agenda for this session. The agenda is contained in 11-11-0010r2. There are the following presentations in the queue:
- Jarkko Kneckt (Nokia): 11-11-0105r0 and 11-11-0128r0
- Dee Denteneer (Philips): 11-11-0172r0
- Guido R. Hiertz (Philips): 11-11-162r0
- Kazuyuki Sakoda (Sony): 11-11-0101r2
- Michael Bahr (Siemens): 11-11-0166r0
- Overview of the comment resolution progress by Kazuyuki Sakoda
2011-01-19T16:12-08:00
Jarkko Kneckt (Nokia) presents 11-11-0105r0. The document contains an Excel sheet with comment resolutions. Document 11-11-0128r0 accompanies the Excel sheet. 11-11-0128r0 contains a Word document with text cleanup and changes to the draft. During the presentation of the Word document, attendees discuss the definition of the active mode. Michael Bahr misses that this mode is no longer link-specific. At least the new text does not say so. Jarkko Kneckt replies that Clause 11C.13 contains a more extensive explanation. Two schemes are available now:
· Link-specific mesh power modes and
· non-peer mesh power mode.
The group helps to improve the wording of the submission. Jarkko Kneckt goes through the list of comments in the XLS sheet. He points out the comments that will be rejected because of his submission. All comments are resolved with the submissions that Jarkko Kneckt uploaded. Jarkko Kneckt will upload an enhanced version of his submissions later. The enhanced version contains the improvements develop during this presentation
The Chairman hands the chairmanship over to Stephen McCann (Research In Motion). Dee Denteneer presents 11-11-0172r0. The document provides possible resolutions to several MCCA related comments. The current presentation discusses 17 comments that concern advertising MCCAOP reservations. The presenter gives some information about the background of the MCCAOP advertisements. As proposed in 11-10-0814r1 the presenter introduces a sequence number that identifies sets of advertisements. Furthermore, a bitmap is introduced that indicates the presence of advertisement elements. The set of tracked MCCAOP reservations are distributed over a number of elements. An element contains reports and the reports contain the information of the reservations.
The Chairman proposes to have straw poll on the presentation and its concepts. The presenter accepts the idea.
Straw poll question:
Is the approach to resolve the Advertisements comments sketched in 11-11-0172r0, introducing the overview element.
Results of the strawpoll:
Yes: 6 No: 0 Abstain: 2
2011-01-19T17:23-08:00
The Chairman hands the chairmanship back to Dee Denteneer. Guido R. Hiertz (Philips) presents 11-11-162r0. The group discusses the idea of a Null path selection protocol and Null path selection metric. Michael Bahr (Siemens) claims that this is not possible. The group concludes that the value 0 should be reserved. Guido R. Hiertz will upload a new revision of the document
2011-01-19T17:39-08:00
Kazuyuki Sakoda (Sony) presents 11-11-0099r2. Kazuyuki Sakoda’s submission resolves 156 of 166 comments. The text is contained in 11-11-0100r2. Kazuyuki Sakoda asks for a volunteer who checks the English grammar and the wording of the resolution proposed. Dan Harkins (Aruba Networks) volunteers to review the text.
2011-01-19T17:48-08:00
The group discusses the current status of the comment resolution. Kazuyuki Sakoda reports that there are several comments left in the category RFI. There is also one comment in the security section that asks to integrate the 802.11s draft with 802.1x. This is taken care of by Peter Yee (MediaTek) and John. Jarkko Kneckt will take care of one of the comments in the G-General category.