Visionary Voices: Leaders. Lessons. Legacy.
Transcript: Bill Baldini Interview
June 7, 2011
Interview conducted by Lisa Sonneborn at Bill Baldini’s home. Videography by Lindsey Martin.
Lisa: (01:01:51:00-01:02:25:10) Bill one of the first things we’d like to ask you today; I know you’re background when you went to school was in political science so how was it that you came to do news reporting?
Bill: [Sarcasm] you’re kidding.
Lisa: [Laughing] No! I’m not.
Bill: It’s a long story. I graduated high school early, I just turned 17 and I thought I knew everything and I was supposed to go to Cornell but I didn’t want my parents to mortgage the house to go. So at the time there was a draft, so I went in the Air Force for four years and one day I realized what a mistake I made. It turned out to be okay; I thought I knew everything and in that one 24-hour period I learned that I knew nothing. So I started going to school and when I finally got out, I was assured in my own mind that I was a captain of industry. So I lived in Overbrook and I was driving out to City Line. The first big building I saw was Channel 6. So I was on my way downtown to go to, like, PSFS with the big buildings. Went to Channel 6, filled out the forms, the back guard said to me, “Oh by the way, what college did you graduate from?” I said well I was in the Air Force for four years and I have two years of college and I’m still going to college. He says, “Let me have that application”.He takes it back and he says “You come back when you have a degree.” So I had a parking space and I crossed the street to Channel 10 - did the exact same thing. The guard says, “WhatCollege did you graduate from?” I said LaSalle. He said “Well go upstairs to personnel” so I- the first person I met was my wife. I was astounded. It was a great place - all the woman seemed to come out of magazines, they were really bright, and beautiful- it was wonderful. Went to personnel, took these tests, went in there to the personnel director - her name was Zara Bishop. She said “I’m looking at your resume and there’s something wrong here it does not say where you graduated college.” And I said, “ Mrs. Bishop the reason it says that is because I had to lie to you. I had to do you a favor”. She was- she sits back in the chair and she says, “Favor?” I said, “ Yes, because if I didn’t lie you wouldn’t have had the opportunity to hire me and that would be the biggest mistake you made today.” She started laughing. She said, “You’re unbelievable, you really mean that?” I said absolutely I mean it. She said “We have a job in a newsroom,” I’ve never even seen the newsroom, “ and it’s a management trainee job.” I said, “ I’ll take it - I’ve never been unemployed, I’ll take it immediately.” They said, “Yeah come in at 5 o’clock on Monday.” Went in the newsroom, 5 o’clock, no one talked to me for four hours. Finally a guy came in whistling like this [whistles softly]. Goofy guy. Big goofy guy. And he says to me “Are you Baldini?” I said, “yeah,” he says, “Oh you’re the new copy boy.” I said,“No, no I’m not - I’m the new management trainee.” He says, “No, you’re the new copy boy.” No, no. Now you have to imagine, for four years they’ve been telling me you’re no longer a boy and the first thing I hear is’ you’re a boy’. I’m really annoyed. I said, “No,” he said “You better come into my office.” Go into his office to find out I snowed her and she snowed me. So this job was me being the copy boy. There were three of us and the job was midnight to eight, eight to four, or four to midnight. And there were only three of us. One guy just graduated Harvard, he was going to Harvard getting a Masters. The other guy was a senior at Yale. And me. And the deal was within a year one of us would be a writer. So I accepted this challenge and I remember this guy, the news director, says to me “Well what do you think?” I said, “I’m gonna win, hands down.” And he says “Why?” and I said, “ Because they’re boys and I’m a man.” [Laughs] I was crazy. And I knew I would never give in. And after a year I got the job. And that’s how I started. So I was no longer captain of industry. And he said, “The day you quit school is the day you’re fired.” So I had to- naturally I finished. Got a scholarship to St. Joe’s, went to finish St. Joe’s in political science. Crazy story, huh?
Lisa: That’s a great story.
Bill: And everybody I worked with- everybody was one of these guys or women who dreamed about being in TV. I mean they started when they were little kids you with Edward R. Murrow. And me? I had no interest at all in the news until I got there and then it became this challenge. And here I am.
Lisa: And there you were, and you’ve started this and you had no interest in the news, no background in the news
Bill: No.
Lisa: And yet you had this incredible opportunity.
Bill: Yeah. I got this opportunity and then the more I was there, the more I liked it. And I changed my- I was an industrial and public relations major then I changed to history then I changed to philosophy and then I got my degree in political science. So the more I was involved in the news the more of a challenge it was. You know writing and learning how to produce. Back in those days you had to go through all the different levels. You had to be a writer you had to be a producer. Then you actually had to do shows be the executive producer and only then did you become a reporter. Now they kinda christen you. Like knighthood. But then you had to earn it. It was really an interesting- you had to be on the assignment desk for at least a year. So by the time you were out on the street you had a fairly good knowledge of how things worked.
Lisa: (01:02:26:00-01:04:55:00) So is that how you heard about Pennhurst, Bill?
Bill:I found out about Pennhurst through an accident. It was probably the most fortunate accident of my life. I was working on a Sunday I had nothing to do. The Marriott was across the street and they used to have conferences all the time. So I said to the assignment editor,“I want to go across the street and see what’s going on.” I ran into this group, Main Line Chamber of Commerce. They were having a meeting about this place called Pennhurst. I never heard of it. Didn’t know where it was. I said what’s this place Pennhurst like and they start telling me the story and I sat there and I said, I’ll never forget, I said, “If 10% of what you’re telling me is true I’ll do a story on it.” I said, How did you get in?” He said, “Wellbecause we volunteer.” I said, “Well I can’t be a fraud. How about swearing me in as a member of the Main Line Chamber of Commerce and I’ll go with you next Sunday?” So I did. No cameras no nothing. And it was more than I ever dreamed. I mean I was in shock. Everything they said was true, plus. So I came back and I told my boss and he had the same reaction I had and he didn’t believe me because I’m this young reporter, I haven’t done anything. [Pause]. So I finally convinced him that I should go back with a camera. And he said, “How are you going to get in?” I said, “Well leave that to me.” So I went back and I went to the person who was running it, the superintendent Leon Potkonski. And frankly told him I saw everything and if he does not let me in with my camera I’m going to stand outside the gates everyday and explain to people what was inside. And I said, “It’s not gonna look good for you. But if you let me in I’ll try to help you out because you need a lot of help here.” So he said, “Well you’re blackmailing me.” I said, “You can call it anything you want; I’m just telling you the truth.” And so he let me in. I was stunned. And that’s when it got started.
Lisa: (01:00:00:00-01:00:42:02) Bill had you ever met a person with a disability?
Bill: Yes I met them but I- I don’t know how to explain it. My father was one of those people who always said you never made fun of anyone who wasn’t exactly like you and he had a great empathy for anybody that was short-changed by nature for any reason. And it kind of impressed me. So you know I always had this sympathy for anybody through no fault of their own had a problem. But I never saw anything like I saw up there. Never. Just- I was stunned.
Lisa: (01:00:42:10-01:02:21:27) Can you describe the first day you actually visited Pennhurst even without your camera? Can you describe that moment?
Bill: Yes. I was with the Junior Chamber of Commerce, Main Line Junior Chamber of Commerce, and we were going through these buildings, and what you can’t show on T.V. is the smell. The smell was unbelievable. I mean you had 80 people in a room and no one is taking care of them and the smell was just incredible. They’re not bathed; their bathroom habits are non-existent. There was no one to help them out. And just to see them in that way and just watch them rock and being ignored and- I have to say it wasn’t the attendants’ fault. You had two attendants for 80 people! I couldn’t have done any better. Nor anybody I know could’ve done any better. But this was the condition and I was- my eyes were just wide open and I was thinking why doesn’t anybody care about this? And that’s when I start talking to the attendant’s. I started talking to some of the administrators. And some of the administrators were elated that I was there. Because this is the first time they can get their word out without getting fired. So they would help me out all the time. I’d get notes, phone calls - it was great. So that was my first reaction and this is what people don’t know; my cameraman and my soundman had a very difficult time. They wanted to leave. Like I can’t stand this anymore I have to get out of here. I used to have to give them breaks. You know kinda calm them down. We gotta do this. And try to explain that this is really worthwhile doing. Which they did. They hung in. For five days. Five straight days.
Lisa: (01:02:22:08-01:03:01:20) what was their reaction based on? Was it based on just the physical smell or just an emotional reaction?
Bill: It was an emotional reaction. You know we- they had the same reaction I did. How could we do this to these people? And it was we. And you know to see it everyday and the people there were starved for any kind of attention. And we’d walk into a ward you know and all they wanted to do was touch you. And if you hugged them, they’d cry. It was so unbelievable and it got to all of us. And you know it was hard to stay there all day.
Lisa: (01:03:02:03-01:03:19:22) Bill do you remember the first resident at Pennhurst that you encountered?
Bill: No. I just remember going into this giant room with people rocking, banging their heads, you know just sitting around doing nothing. This absolute despair kind of got to me.
Lisa: (01:03:22:00-01:04:41:11) The people, the staff at Pennhurst, particularly the administrative staff seemed very frank in their interviews with you. Why do you think it is that they weren’t more guarded, given the conditions at Pennhurst?
Bill: I think some of the reasons the people at Pennhurst, the administrators, were open to me was because they wanted to confess. They worked in this atmosphere all the time and no one was listening to them. So now, I was their vehicle to get the word out to their bosses. I think that had a lot to do with it. I think some people that had been there a long time became a little callous to the situation, really didn’t see the forest through the trees. The attendants and some of the administrators were just ecstatic. Like god I’ve been trying to get somebody to listen to me all these years and no one was listening and I- you know gave them a vehicle so they could be heard. And I had to protect them because I didn’t want them to get fired, but they helped me enormously. They were really great - I couldn’t have done it without them.
Lisa: (01:00:00:00-01:01:27:26) You’ve said that a lot of the staff were really sort of angels trying to do good against, you know, really-
Bill: Incredible odds
Lisa: Unbeatable odds. But did you come across some Pennhurst staff that you thought maybe, as you said, were more callous or just were indifferent .
Bill: Oh sure. Yeah, I saw some staff members who were callous. Most of them were not, most of them were really dedicated people making 75 dollars a week to go in and take care of 80 people a day. That’s incredible. But there’s some people, there were some people there who became callous at the situation and shouldn’t have been working there. But they were few and far between. Most of them were absolutely dedicated but overwhelmed. Let me give you the best example: I went into a ward and there were eighty cribs. Eighty. Cages. Metal cribs. And some of the people in the cribs, I mean they ranged in age from 6 months to 5 years. They’re lets were this thick [using hands] that’s their thigh. So I asked how come these people are in these cages, how come they can’t walk? And the attendant said because- they opened the closet and they had like eighty mattresses- and he said, “Because we don’t have enough people to put these mattresses on the floor so they can learn how to crawl”, because you had to learn how to crawl before you can walk. So they stayed in a cage 24/7 for years. I was like you’re kidding me. “No, that is the reason. We just can’t.” And then I thought about it; I mean you’re changing diapers. Eighty people! Two [raises hand signaling 2] attendants. There’s just no way. And that’s the way it was.
Lisa: (01:01:30:08-01:02:44:03) You know you’ve described the smell of Pennhurst when you first walked in and how overwhelming that was. I imagine Pennhurst as being also a cacophony of sound given all the people. And yet, when I look at Suffer the Little Children, there’s little to no ambient sound in your broadcast and I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about why that is?
Bill: There’s two things at Pennhurst that you notice right away was: the smell, and the sound. The sounds were people moaning, all day long. Moaning, groaning, you know pleading for help. It was terrible. The reason we did not have a lot of natural sound, you gotta remember when we did this in 1968, it wasn’t a big deal. Sound you only used for interviews. You know now everything’s natural sound - you want it to be. But, there was even an area in the documentary where I remember we didn’t have sound I just showed pictures but it was silence. You know if I had to do it now I’d make a big deal of the sound but- so be it. You know that’s a long time ago. But that’s why we did not have a lot of natural sound. It just wasn’t that important. You didn’t think that way.
Lisa: (01:02:45:06-01:03:32:00) And what kinds of sounds did you hear when you were walking through Pennhurst?
Bill: Well the people, you know, like I said the sounds of Pennhurst were sounds of pain. Neglect. They would just moan they would just cry. They would just be banging their heads. I mean some people did it out of frustration. You know, I want a feeling so I’ll bang my head. They had to wear helmets all day long. It was incredible and what’s even more incredible when you met people who were slightly retarded [and people] who were not retarded at all. It was a dumping ground for anybody. And you wondered why they were there. And how they, in their own minds, went downhill instead of uphill. It- that was horrible. That was horrible to see.
Lisa: (01:03:34:01-01:00:34:01) What did your producers think- you know your crew had such a visceral reaction to this terrible place. What did your producers, who didn’t think there was a story to begin with, think when you started bringing back this very, very troubling footage?
Bill: That’s an interesting question because I do remember distinctly when I first came back. We worked all day and I mean we were mentally and physically wiped out. And when I brought the film- it was film you had to process it, and then you had to edit it. I called the news director down and then he watched it and he was almost in tears- he just couldn’t believe it. He says, “Bill, I thought you were exaggerating.” I said,“Barry, I understand but this is it.” He said- and at the time we ran stories and they were a minute forty-five. I was getting like six and seven minutes. The last one I think was twenty-three minutes. But, the bottom line was- the bad news was when we put it on the air the first day we got such an unbelievable reaction from the public we didn’t know what to do. It was like the biggest reaction we ever got from anything. So they told me,“You know you gotta go back tomorrow, you gotta continue this.” And I had been working like sixteen hours because I had to write it, I had to produce it, I had to edit it. So you know I’m not getting very much sleep like three or four hours you know I was sleeping in the building in the ladies room. So I had to go back the next day and the reaction got even bigger and it was like well you gotta do it again and I was taking these No Doze pills. I was- by the fifth day I couldn’t speak I lost my voice because I was just so tired and my body just gave way. So I wrote it- I wrote the last day and I couldn’t read it. So John Facenda read it and maybe that is the best thing that every happened but- I just passed out I just couldn’t do it anymore. It was like 24/7 - after the fourth day, I was done.