Working Time Comments

Working Time comments

We have canvassed members about the recent Supreme Court decision on working time and paid leave for offshore workers. Below we set out the responses to the two questions we posed. We have removed the identities of those responding to protect them.
1. What's your opinion of the ruling?
2. What do you think should happen now?
1. This ruling shows a staggering level of ignorance about the offshore industry. Do they honestly think that ALL offshore workers are on a regular 2 x 2 rotation? Have they never heard of cancelled crew changes due to weather/ technical issues with helicopters. They are basically saying that no-one on a 2 x 2 can have more than about 10 days holiday at a time. This year alone, I have done several 3 to 4 week trips followed by 7 to 10 days off, followed by another 3 or 4 weeks on. How does this ruling apply to the likes of me?
2. I don't know the legal ins and outs, but if the above has not been highlighted to the judges, then they have made their judgement based on insufficient evidence, which I suspect would be grounds for appeal in a criminal case, but as I say, I'm not a lawyer!
If you need any of this cleared up, don't hesitate to contact me.
1. That decision has put the industry back 20-30 years.
2. Strike
1. Outright shocking, between all the safety courses that we attend on our field break time, never the firms time, we hardly get 2 fullfield breaks on the trot. I will be devastated if we lose our holiday entitlement.
2. I would like to think we are strong enough for a fight, but I fear the worse, more than half the guys thought this was only concerning the drillers, and it was only the 4th week of our holidays. I’m afraid more than half of them have got their head up where the sun don’t shine.
Keep up the good work guys, there are still some of us listening out there
1. The ruling is shocking. I just wonder how much was paid into Cayman Island accounts to secure that decision.
2. People should work to rule or even consider industrial action. Won't happen of course but a nice thought. The employers now are going to try put us all back on 2 & 2, those of us on 2 & 3 could earn more money elsewhere but we choose 2 & 3 because we want a life outside work. We need to fight now to retain 2 & 3 REGARDLESS of how much the companies will off to revert back to 2 & 2!
1. The decision to take our annual holidays during our field breakis unacceptable as this is in breach of our human rights.
2. This matter should nowbe taken to the court of human rights in Brussels who I'm sure will most certainly rule in favour of offshore holidays taken out with the field break.
1. The ruling shows that the decision making process is flawed with regards to understanding the shift patterns. The employers have advocated the WTD is not applicable to offshore but do the onshore support staff work the same hours? Would they be expected to work the same hours? Do the onshore employees have to get out of their beds for call outs - not getting paid for this? If offshore unable to have the statutory 8 hours off if called out due to a third person being in the room on nightshift.
2. What to do next is the route of appealing the decision or taking through EU an option, if all else fails then the strike option would need to be considered bearing in mind the offshore workforce seem to be apathetic to any form of action in current climate, words are spoken but as is always the case actions speak louder than words.
1. Reading the P & J this morning it was quite disconcerting to read the replies to the questions posed, as the people asked seem to think it is acceptable having known no different. The strikes as we all know in the late 80's were about T's & C's & the continental shelf agreement. For my part the comment by the last person "it doesn't affect me as I get three weeks off anyway" is not the answer we as a workforce want to hear but unfortunately is indicative of present mindset by some individuals on this rota. I am in the fortunate position of working the 2 on 3 off shift pattern but am under no illusion that this won't affect personnel on this rotation time will tell.
1. It is a disgrace that once again the UK offshore industry does not have to follow the same criteria as other industries, and thus the workers are not getting a fair deal. I work on a installation where the workforce are from all over Europe, and once again the UK workforce have less rights as well as less pay whilst fulfilling the same job as our European colleagues
2. It is time to stand up and be counted, if the companies won't listen industrial action in whatever form is deemed appropriate should be taken
1. Holidays during field breaks is an effin disgrace. We qualify for field break by doing the time offshore.
2. Industrial action should certainly be the way to go. I was involved in 89/90 so have no problem. Things will only get worse if we don't stand up to ruthless employers and bent law lords.
1. My view of this is, when your are stuck on the rig due to bad weather which happens a lot in the North Sea you sometimes do not have your full leave was this taken into consideration? I worked in the Brents for many years and out of 18 trips I only managed to get off on time twice, and its not only one or two days stuck its sometimes 3 to for days. This comes off our leave at home and that’s why the holidays for us were so important . To the Lords that passed this - " HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME SHITTING ON THE WORKING MAN YET AGAIN"
2. I heard that they classed us as the same as teachers, footballers etc etc, does a footballer or teacher risk their lives in a dangerous environment on a daily basis I think not. I many of my duties I am on call 24 hours a day and could be called out at anytime during the night. The Dutch, Norweigan and Danish sectors have all seen a massive improvement for offshore workers rota safety pay the list is endless. Questions must be asked WHY the UK sector is years behind these other countries.
1. Totally unacceptable, health and safety demands our conditions must improve.
2. Selectiveindustrial action / cut off there supplies of oil and gas with the least involvement of members
1. Disgusting
2. Industrial action
1. The ruling is wrong. It is a step backwards in time. It is disproportionate to every other work place basic rights.
2. I think the decision should be overturned and our holidays which we are entitled to are reinstated.
We do not work 2 and 2....we work 16 days away 12 at home IF WE ARE LUCKY !!!! Try fitting 14 days holiday into 12 days bloody doesn't fit!
1. The ruling is incomprehensibly contrary to the spirit of the European Law and places the UK sector worker as NOT equal before the law compared to the workers of the other European nations. This is a flagrant violation of a key principle of all Law and the British Common Law in particular.
2. Either Britain should remove itself from the European Union for refusing to be law-abiding or else the offshore workforce should strike. And I mean get out and stay out. No half measures.
1. The ruling hardly surprises me although I am disappointed in the result. To say that yes, as offshore workers we have entitlement and then rule that the holiday period can be taken as existing rotational leave is at best ironic but really is just disingenuous and sadly predicable. Predictable in as much as the times we are now living is it is an employers market and employees should be 'grateful' to have a job - any job - and accept whatever the employers deem fit to pay and under whatever terms and conditions the employers can get away with.
2. Total rejection of the ruling. It is doubtful that the threat of industrial action will have any effect or be supported by the majority of membership. Can this be taken to the European Courts?
1. - The ruling is an absolute sham. This just goes to show the employers don’t give a damn about health and safety - just profits.
2. - Ballot the workforce, hit the cobbles.
All the best - Keep up the fight.
1. Total rubbish! No doubt the public will look at it and think greedy offshore workers how much more time do they want off. The majority don’t realize we work 84hrs/week when we are there. WE don’t get overtime rates after 8hrs NO TIME AND A HALF DOUBLE TIME FOR WEEKENDS,BANK HOLIDAYS ARE ALL WORKED AT NORMAL TIME,THEY DON’T SLEEP ON A TIMEBOMB. Nearest land 150ft down over. I hope the media explain all these facts rather than portraying offshore workers as greedy.
2. Wait and see what the response from the companies is if they take it off us SHUT THE NORTH SEA DOWN.
1. The Ruling has been bought. Why not refer it to the European courts? AsEurope were the instigators of the WTD.
2. I think action should be taken but judging by the response from those on my platform who are on two on three rota it's a case of I'm alright jack. Had jobs been aplenty which was the reason they gave these guys 2-3 rotas to secure a steady workforce I think the decision would have went in our favour.
One of many unhappy 2-2 rota guys.
1.I have a sick feeling right to the pit of my stomach,after all these years of hoping that the high and mighty, educated men and women at the highest court in the landwould see our side of this issue. But no these people, the same oneswho let murderers and rapists out of jail on appeal because someone "infringed they're human rights", think it's OK for me not to have a two week holiday with my family. Yes that's right, on a two on two off schedule it's impossible for that to happen.Another thing is the 'two on two off' myth, it's15 day's on 13 day's off, it's even worse if you live a long distance fromAberdeen.
Yes there will be drinks all round at the Petroleum Club tonight.
2.Cry a little, drink a lot, get angry and be ready for a fight. Unfortunately there are many off-shore who will be saying "I knew this would happen, that's why I'm not ina union". It'ssuch a diverse industry, no change as far as the drill crews, catering and service handson the drilling rigs, they have always been shafted. No sympathy from the general public, they only see off-shore workers on their "leave time", or should I say "holiday's", not doing 12 hour shifts for 14 days solid in thesometimes horrendous conditions in the North Sea. The fight must start on the platforms, there they do get holidays and they will see a big change in they're conditions very soon. The fightmust start where the oil is produced, stop the flow of oil and gas and this fight will be over in a flash. To do this the offshore workers need support, remember if all the offshore workers withdrew their labour tomorrow, it would only be half the workforceinvolved as 50% are on field break. It's a lot to ask these peopleto put there necks on the line.
When the OILC joined the RMT, I voted for it as it made us part of a bigger unit. Now it's time for Bob Crow and the rest of the RMT to show the OILC branch some solidarity. If the oil and gas stopped flowing and the trains, buses and ferries alsostopped moving this fight will be over in days.
I also can't understandour government? Youth unemployment is sitting at 1 million yet the oil industry in the North Seais shipping in foreign workers from all over the world. They are cheating thetax payers out of employers national insurance contributions and the only lasting monuments this industry will leave are statues to the dead workers they have left behind.
Giving the entire North Sea workforce their holiday entitlement, byputting themon a 2 on 3 off schedule, would boost employment in all sectors of the industry, create countless jobs, reduce social security payment and boost tax revenues.
As the OILC news letter say's "Enough is Enough"
1. To be honest, if we can't organise our holidays around what amounts to half a year off, then there is something wrong. In my case, I work on vessels and we in fact work a great deal more than equal time and we manage to organise holidays so what is all the bleating about. Grow up and wise up. There are folk out there with no jobs.
1. Very disappointed, let down, feel as though we arelooked upon as the lower class in offshore work force compared to other countries like Norway
2.I think we are in astrange position, because many of us are on different shift patterns.....Many of us already enjoy a gifted leave time of 2 /3 or 2/2-2/4. It’s convincing the likes of us that this will be removed. And what about the workers that have been working 2on 2off all this time anyway.....many of these guys have already accepted that's their lot, so trying to get these guys to show their against such a ruling is pointless. I am at a loss as to what we do now, but I know that by doing nothing will only encourage Oil Companies to use the letter of the Law and start changing rota's to suit them and save money. They will no doubt use the ECONOMIC CLIMATE Quote andthey'll have the old "But it's the Law" ace card up their sleeve. I fear the worst. It was a Noble Fight and Just Fight...... but yet again...Money Talks.....and WINS.
1. The ruling is a kick in the teeth for all us who work offshore, yet again it shows to me that the oil companies can do whatever they want.
2. It is about time that we look into hurting the oil companies for a change instead of them hurting us all the time.The oil companies have had it all their own way for far to long now. I think we should be looking at industrial action, and the sooner the better.
1. To class us as teachers and footballers!!! what planet do they come from? They’re supposed to be educated men, not bought oil company puppets, let them seeour lives out hear, not too much danger in classrooms and football grounds, fancy tea with your loved one tonight ? Maybe take the kids out? No sorry "no can do" have to sleep on a time bomb for nothing, they make me weep.
2. We’ve tried reason with no success, the only way forward now is industrial action, we’ve gone back to 1989, let the work build up and hit them, lets get together lads !!!!!
1. A total disgrace, add this to the fact that people are supposed to be living longer & the government are making people work longer. How can this be acceptable in a heavy construction work industry, by the time offshore workers reach 65 the heavy industry has taken its toll on many workers absolutely shocking.
2. Now is the time to stand & be counted
1. My opinion of the ruling is that it is a complete disgrace.I felt physically sick when I read your mail. I have a wife with MS and the youngest of my 3 children has Autism. They just about cope with my current 2 & 3 rota but going back to 2 & 2 would be enough to put a stop to my offshore career. My eldest daughter who is at uni’ works 14 hrs a week and gets paid holidays.... what is going on here????
2. Take it to the European courts, at least the oil companies do not seem to be able to control them.
1. This just gives more power to the already strong drilling contractors who
WILL make the most of it, you can be sure. I work for a company who say that
we get 5 weeks holiday per year provided that we tell them at the beginning
of each year when we want to take our 5 weeks and that it MUST be within our field breaks. They also say that all other field breaks will therefore be
considered as time available for other duties, training courses etc!
2. Other than industrial action, what can be done? The highest court in the
land has rejected the claim so we have no other option. However taking
industrial action when you work offshore is so much harder than if you are a
teacher, government worker etc.
1. This decision is perverse If we can take our holidays in our field breaks then everyone on the mainland can take theirs at weekends.
2. I think we should all contact our MEP and see if they can bring this up in the European Parliament. I doubt very much if this is what they intended when they brought the WTD in.
Maths for Law Lords, Lady Smith & Dummies, if there is a difference:
Typical Offshore Worker: 12 hours x 7 days x 26 weeks = 2184 hours per annum actually worked
(including no time off for 'leave') (not including potentially 2 weeks or even more of 'field break' time per annum spent on employers' training courses away from home) (not including pre-shift meetings, emergency drills, safety meetings out with shift hours or travel to/from offshore) (not including extra days stuck on rig at end of trip & continuing to work extra 12 hours shifts as normal for perhaps several days & losing that number of days 'field break' due to bad weather, fog, helicopter breakdowns) (not taking into account that typically, any days missed from rig time will be unpaid & the corresponding number of days 'field break' pay will also be deducted from 'salary') (if your spouse, child, siblings or parents die, you may be entitled to 4 days paid compassionate leave, including travel time from rig to home & back to rig again, but any additional time off required to bury them will be unpaid).