MINUTES OF NAWRA MEETING HELD ON
FRIDAY 3rd JUNE IN EDINBURGHPresent
Shabir Elahi
/Blackburn with Darwen BC
Tris Momo
/Staffs CC
Alice Dair
/Staffs CC
Claire Owens
/Denbighshire CC
Alex Williams
/Denbighshire CC
Neil Bateman
/Karen Conner
/North Lanarkshire Council
Cathy Gowenlock
/Neath Port Talbot Council
Robert Bills
/CEC WRS
Billy Park
/Stockton WR
Jarwinder Jagra
/Stockton WR
Val Hudson
/Redcar & Cleveland WR
Sarah Collins
/Middlesbrough WR
Chris Goldair
/Middlesbrough WR
Lynn Wynd
/Newcastle WRS
Clive Davis
/Newcastle WRS
Euan Henderson
/Glasgow CC
MT
/Sunderland City WRS
Maria Tealay
/Surrey WRU
Mick Guy
/Durham WR
G Mockie
/WRO
Bashir Zaman
/Tameside HBC WRS
S Campbell
/Perennial
Kate Fincham
/MASH Citizens Advice Leeds
C Hackman
/North Lanarkshire Council
Frances Brown
/ERCouncil
Brian Dougan
/East Lanarkshire Council
Alan Markey
/Citizens Advice Specialist Support
Kyle Walker
/North Lanarkshire Council
Lenerre Syed
/North Lanarkshire Council
Robert Hinds
/Glasgow City
Liz Watts
/Renfrewshire
Sarah Walker
/North Lanarkshire
Graham Bazley
/East Bristol Advice Centre
Keith Spencer
/RNID
Alban Hawksworth
/Age Concern England
Ian Gemmell
/EAC
Sarah Campbell
/CPAG
Emma Bridges
/Speakeasy Advice Centre (Cardiff)
Carolyn Armstrong
/North Lanarkshire Council
Barry MacDonald
/Counsel & Care, Camden London
Richard Gass
/Glasgow CC
Jim Thompson
/Dunedin Canmore HA
Jacqueline Brown
/TPS
John MacPhail
/TPS
John Rahman
/LB Redbridge
Paul McColl
/NLC
Jim Fogarty
/Glasgow CC
Hugh McCut
/Glasgow CC
Tracey Brown
/North Ayshire Council
Shawn Mach
/Rightsnet
Apologies
Bestwood Advice Centre; Wendy Grayson (Disability Law Service); Derbyshire WR; Tom Messere (Swansea WR); Patrick Hill (Bolton WR): Help the Aged, Seniorline; Jim McKenny (Kirklees WR); Belinda Belaire (St Dunstans); Keith Thompson (Northumberland WR); Jane Hayball (Greenwich WR); Celia Minoughan (LB Newham); Wakefield MDC Benefits Unit; Lorna Hutchinson (South Kirklees CAB); Veronica De Heer (Essex CC); Gillian Manning (Mutual Benefit Training); Mike Shermer (Kings Lynn & West Norfolk WR); Terry Patterson.
Welcome
Anne Hannah, Edinburgh Council
Speakers
John McPhail (Group Manager for Scotland) & Jacqueline Brown (Partnership Development Officer for Scotland)
Presentation attached
Minutes of Last Meeting
Agreed.
Steering Group Report
Alan Markey summarised the following points:
· Drafted letter to UK Local Authorities about ‘Joint Teams’, contact Alan or Sarah: ,
· Future meetings:
o Wigan, 2nd September 2005
o London Borough of Camden, 2nd December 2005
o Nottingham, March 2006
· Future workshops:
o Ethics & Values ‘debate’
o Discretion v Rights
o Any other ideas please contact your Steering Group Representative or the Secretary
Contact list attached
Secretary email:
· Increasing national awareness of NAWRA
· We have attended NOS4 meetings
· We have representatives on the DWP Working Group & Tax Credits Working Group
· Research ideas? Please contact your Steering Group Rep
· Appeal process review
· Possible Steering Group voting in December, please be prepared
· Success and importance of Welfare Rights
· New regional network in East Anglia
o Please let your Steering Group Rep know of any networks not on the list attached
· Rightsnet subscriptions
o To be discussed for next year to include discount as part of NAWRA membership
Information Exchange
Richard Gass (Glasgow Council)
Scotland website has a Pension Credit calculator: http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/GettingAdvice/WelfareRights/Benefits/Calculators/
Mary (Sunderland Welfare Rights)
Tax Credits experience is that Inland Revenue is uncommunicative, anyone else’s experiences?
Anne Hannah (Edinburgh Council)
Inland Revenue won’t do a presentation about Tax Credits.
Richard Gass (Glasgow Council)
Kate Marsden met with us, Scottish Rep to be organised.
Alan Markey (Citizens Adv ice Specialist Support Unit)
Tax Credit issues can be raised through our Tax Credit Rep Andy Platt:
Paula Twigg (CPAG)
Join our Tax Credits Monitoring Network to be included in mailing of Quarterly Updates.
Mary (Sunderland Welfare Rights)
DWP Liaison Group meeting today.
Alan (Citizens Advice SSU)
Tax Credit minutes last circulated on 26th April 2005.
Neil Bateman
Problems with Job Centre Plus interpreters (lack of them), monitoring and feedback please, to:
Is NAWRA Rep on DWP Strategy Forum, please send feedback, and strategic policy concerns to him. Minutes will be circulated.
Keith Spencer (RNID)
Telephony Access meeting in Leeds, admittance of lack of provision of services with no future plans to provide services, send evidence to:
Via email
Belinda Belaire (St Dunstans)
In the matter of Council Tax exemptions for "quiet rooms": Since the Sandwell Council v John Perks case we have had quite a few Local Authorities trying to cancel/refuse the "quiet room" rebate. They all seem to be under the impression that this was a judicial decision and can be used as law when in fact; Mr. Perks never took it that far. Would that he had - it would have made life a great deal easier for us!
Our representative at the last case (only last week) against Stroud
Council had to be very firm and point out to the Council Representative that "in her opinion" carried no weight and that the regulations are very specific in this respect and have not been changed!
Has anyone else had the same problem? If they have, we are swiftly becoming a fount of knowledge on how to beat these cases and will, we believe, have to continue to do so until someone takes it the whole 9 yards and there is a commissioner’s decision on the matter!
Email with feedback.
Keith Spencer (RNID)
Issue raised 18 months ago, several cases to tribunal, only won 1. Asked for ODPM’s view who have referred back to Local Authority. Collating info, please do contact Keith.
Alan (CA SSU)
Sandwell Council cancelled Disability reduction asking for reapplication.
Shabir Elahi (Blackburn with Darwen Council)
One Stop Shops, early talk to combining services.
Anne (Edinburgh Council)
Scottish plans to develop contact centres, Welfare Rights to move into Council centres.
Vera Baxter (Scottish Borders Council)
Previously managed a One Stop Shop, this service enhanced the Welfare Rights service, a combination of MP’s, CABx and Welfare Rights teams shared the building. West Lothian a good example, it’s possible to contact Alan Cunningham.
Calum (North Lanarkshire Council)
Contact centres addressing specific issues, not Welfare Rights issues.
Clive Davis (Newcastle Council)
A problem with One Stop Shops is that sometimes they include Local Authorities that can put customers off.
Bashir (Tameside Welfare Rights)
Worked well until combined with revenues office.
Vera (Scottish Borders Council)
Lancashire County Council WRS agreed Independence statement to deal with these issues.
Anne (Edinburgh Council)
South Ayrshire Commissioner questioning Welfare Rights decision based on independence.
Joint Teams Discussion
Mary (Sunderland WR)
Concerning is data protection issue, used often now in conversations.
Richard (Glasgow Council)
Saw on website, not possible to share info even if in Joint Team.
Anne (Edinburgh Council)
Must have mandate and be cautious of how it is worded.
John McPhail (Group Manager for Scotland)
Memorandum of understanding must include use of info is only for decision-making.
Jacqueline (Partnership Development Officer for Scotland)
Service enhancement is about gathering and sharing of info to improve decision-making.
Calum (North Lanarkshire Council)
Our experience of Scottish plans so far is that Joint Teams is what is going to happen NOT Joint Working.
Issue is Welfare Rights workers and DWP employees have different decision-making ideas.
Frances Brown (ERC)
How can client have a choice who they deal with?
Alan (CA SSU)
Mark Eholt said there’d be no need for independent advice centres once Joint Teams rolls out. Has spoken with Pension Service, decisions haven’t been referred to independent advice centres.
An Important part of Welfare Rights work is campaigning etc.
Iris (Staffordshire Council)
In talks with DWP, have been told no advocacy work can be carried out.
Sarah Collins (Middlesbrough Council)
Decisions made by revenues team, works with Welfare Rights team closely. Pension Service intentions are admirable, however examples are showing poor service and advice.
Richard (Glasgow Council)
Joint Teams could be acceptable if with other teams but NOT Welfare Rights.
Keith (RNID)
Info discussed at national level is not reaching regions. Joint Teams is NOT Partnership Working.
Caroline (Lanarkshire Council)
Involvement in care assessments, registration an issue.
John McPhail
Joint terms and conditions not an issue, it’s not possible to do that, original conditions will be retained. Trying to discourage customers to claim benefits they’re not entitled to. There’s a small difference between Joint Teams/Working. Management observe and evaluate mutual staff performance. Encourages pushing boundaries but no clients to claim for benefits not entitled to. Trying to achieve putting customer in ‘driving seat’.
Mary (Sunderland Council)
Contact centres not finding possible clients, lack of knowledge of benefits within centres.
Paula (CPAG)
Welfare Rights aren’t dismissing Joint Teams per se, just the loss of independent advice, supporting claims, and overpayments issues.
Keith (RNID)
Advising Pension service how best to service and communicate with customers.
Calum (North Lanarkshire Council)
We want to be involved in Joint Working but are concerned about the meaning of Joint Teams.
Richard (Glasgow Council)
It’s necessary to clarify meaning of Joint Teams.
Neil Bateman
JT figures on benefit gains are not ‘value added score’ because they include all the additional benefits that would have been gained anyway by DWP and LA staff. Even so, some JT figures are very poor. PS claim that 69% of English and Welsh LAs have agreed to set up JTs but surveys of these LAs show that the figures are wildly incorrect and this was confirmed by a poll at a NAFAO meeting recently. Several LAs listed as having JTs don’t have them. DWP claim to House of Commons Work and Pensions Committee that AA take up was better in JT areas has had to be withdrawn after it was challenged.
Bashir (Tameside Welfare Rights)
Implementing a Joint at the moment, happy to include some staff from Local Authority but not Welfare Rights workers.
Robert Hinds (Glasgow Council)
Claims entitlement is open to interpretation.
Alan (CA SSU)
Debate issues not just Local Authorities, also includes voluntary organisations. We’re trying to avoid a bureaucratic decision making process.
Anne (Edinburgh Council)
Thank you to Pension Service for staying. Perhaps this info can improve where we go from here.
Feedback, AOB & Workshop Resources
Competencies for welfare rights and debt advisersin Scotland attached
Welfare Rights competencies: history, process and methodology, email feedback to Neil.
Local Housing Allowances: Pathfinder Project attached
The success of LHA and the facts
Shortened DLA Form Pilot
Specimen copies of the claim pack currently used by Glasgow DBC were passed round and comments made, also gave some comparisons between Glasgow and Edinburgh, who are using the normal claim pack. The rollout of the shortened claim pack has been put on hold as the DLA and AA e-claim form is currently being designed. At the moment we have no information on when the shortened claim pack will be rolled out.
After the claim pack discussion we had a general (and at times lively discussion) on the claims procedures.
Thank you to workshop facilitators the workshops were well received.
Rights Advice Scotland meeting in Perth 12th August 2005.
Next Meeting/s
Wigan 2nd September 2005
London (Camden) 2nd December 2005
Nottingham 3rd March 2006
Thank you to host Edinburgh City Council and Vera Baxter
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