SURREY HILLS BYWAYS WORKING GROUP

Notes of Meeting held on 6 February 2017

Warren Farm Barns

Attending:

David Wright, Chairman Surrey Hills Board and Guildford Borough Council

Mike Nash, SCC Partnership & Intelligence Officer

Gail Brownrigg, Horse Drawn Carriage Drivers/Rider

Liberty Carlton, Forestry Commission

George Chapman, Wotton Estate

Edward Cheevers, Wotton Estate

Brian Cohen, Trail Riders Fellowship

Duncan Ferns, Buckland Estate

Alan Pryor, Buckland Parish Council

Steve Mitchell, Surrey County Council

Paul Redsell, National Trust

Mark Richards, National Trust

Pennie King, Surrey Hills AONB Unit (Administrator)

Item / / Action
1 /

Introductions and Apologies

1.1 / Apologies: Graham Butler (SCAF); Lucy Bryce, SWT; Stuart McLachlan, Capel PC
Mark Trezise, Surrey Police, who was previously a member of the Byways Working Group is currently on sick leave. PK had spoken with Sgt Adam Luck to see if someone else would be able to attend the Byways Working Group meetings but he informed her that this would no longer be possible.
Introductions: David Wright welcomed Mike Nash, SCC Partnership & Intelligence Officer, to the meeting.
2 / Notes of Last Meeting
The notes of the meeting held on 12 September 2016 were agreed and will be posted on the Surrey Hills website. / PK/CP
3 / Matters arising not on the Agenda
3.1 / The meeting with David Munro, Surrey Police & Crime Commissioner, has been rearranged for 1 March 2017. David Wright and Rob Fairbanks will meet with him. During the meeting DW will emphasise to DM that rural crime requires a different approach to urban crime.
8.4 / It was agreed that there needs to be a 4 wheel drive representative on the group. PK to send Andy Jackson of GLASS the date of the next meeting. / PK
4. / Reporting on illegal activity
4.1 / Neighbourhood Alert: GBr reported that the majority of emails she has received from Neighbourhood Alert have been reports of burglaries from garden sheds etc but nothing on rural crime. She added that the response of the Call Centre was not as quick as it has been with Country Watch. Gail agreed to forward one of the emails to PK to circulate to the Group.
MR said that not all people transferred from Country Watch to Neighbourhood Alert and that it would have been helpful if contact details had been transferred over to the new scheme automatically. There used to be Neighbourhood Coordinators who were excellent but these posts no longer existed. / GBr/PK
4.2 / Off Road Motorcycles: LC said there was a big problem with illegal off road motorcycles on Wolvens Lane. GBr had seen between 15 and 20 recently, including VW buggies. PR said that in the recent snowy weather there were a number of motorcycles, without registration plates and with drivers not wearing helmets but it was impossible for anyone to catch them. It was agreed that the only way to catch the perpetrators is to wait for them to return to their vans and to take photos of the vans. Three more police officers have been trained to ride the Off Road Motorcycles in Mole Valley; however we do not know if they are being used currently due to the pressures on the Police from cutbacks.
5. / Survey Work (SM)
5.1 / Ride Lane: SM reported that there was a non time limited TRO in process for Ride Lane. This has to be advertised for 6 weeks. SM said that the total cost of the Order was approximately £7k. Some money had been secured from the Guildford Committee, Eastern Cluster. The justification for the Order was public safety. GBr asked if they were planning to grade Ride Lane. SM said that if they had the resources they might consider it.
5.2 / Coldharbour Common Road: SM said there was nothing to report. BC said there were a few deep puddles but he had ridden it recently and it was passable. PK to remove Coldharbour Common Road from the Agenda. / PK
5.3 / Buckland Lane: A non time limited TRO has been put in place on Buckland Lane. The restriction does not apply to carriages and motorcycles. Mary-Ann Edwards (RoW) had talked to the local landowner who has agreed to install a post at the bottom and a gate at the top sometime before early summer. GBr asked if a visual barrier could be put up to stop horses going off the edge where there is a steep drop but it would be very difficult to do so as there is nothing to fix the barrier to. The only way to ensure 100% safety for horses would be to close it to horses.
5.4 / LC asked if it would be possible for some Byways to be made available only for 2 wheel vehicles and for 4 wheel vehicles to be banned to save further deterioration. SM said if it was not possible to prevent deterioration through maintenance or enforcement then a TRO would be the answer. The County Council has a statutory duty to maintain the Highways. SM said Defra has a Byways Working Group looking into the sustainability of byways, budgets etc. SM will send a copy of the minutes for PK to circulate.
PR commented that as more and more TROs are put on Byways it will focus people on to the byways that are open so they will deteriorate more quickly. It was confirmed that when a TRO is put on a byway to prevent 4x4s from using it, it is still open to carriages. PR agreed to pass this information on to ADEPT. / SM/PK
PR
6. / Fly-Tipping
6.1 / Mike Nash, SCC Partnership & Intelligence Officer, introduced himself to the Group. Mike took up post at the end of November and is primarily responsible for tackling the problem of fly-tipping in Surrey, in liaison with John Evans at Kent County Council. Mike’s post is currently being financed by Surrey Waste Partnership.
6.2 / Mike reported that the 11 Boroughs and Districts in Surrey all deal with fly-tipping differently and he is trying to join it all up on a multi-agency database called Safety Net. All Boroughs and Districts have signed up to it but not all are using it yet; however people are being trained to use it. Mike has written a PowerPoint presentation, which includes details of unusual fly-tips and “people of interest”. This goes to all Districts and Boroughs and they are asked to report back to Mike on any sightings. DW offered to write to the Districts and Boroughs saying we think that what Mike is doing is an excellent development and that we fully support him. Mike said he may well take DW up on the offer.
6.3 / Mike reported that he has linked in with Richard Hamlin and they are going to have special action days, with the next one being in Mole Valley. Mike has also linked in with the Traveller Liaison Officers.
6.4 / Mike reported that there have been some good prosecutions which he wants to publicise. In one case they had taken photos of a fly-tip, found a letter in it, looked up the address and saw that a refurbishment had been carried out at the property. When approached the landowners said it was their fly-tip but the builders had done it and they had not checked the builders’ credentials. BC said he had found fly-tips and had carried out similar investigative work, had reported it to the Police but no action had been taken. Mike said that sometimes just writing to the householder and reminding them of their obligations can be enough, rather than prosecuting them
6.5 / Cameras and signage can be installed in areas where fly-tips regularly take place. MR reported that fly-tipping is now taking place on footpaths rather than in car parks, possibly because of CCTV. Buckinghamshire CC has cameras everywhere but they are labour intensive. If the National Trust has a problem with a particular car park, they restrict the access to it.
6.6 / It was agreed that it would be a good idea to have one Enforcement Team for the whole county but MN said that just getting the Borough and District Enforcement Teams talking has not been done before, so that is a big step forward.
6.7 / Mike reported that he has a meeting with Smart Water in the near future and will report back to the next meeting. / MN
6.8 / Mike also reported that Sgt Mike Manners of Mole Valley Police will help him with DVLA checks etc.
6.9 / The Group agreed that it is very important to keep Mike in post and that we will support him in any way we can.
7. / Forestry Commission
7.1 / LC reported that fly-tipping and illegal motorbikes are the problems. They have had horrendous problems on Wolvens Lane and are planning to put a stock fence along the whole length again to attempt to keep the bikes out. They had also had some fly-tipping in East Horsley. LC found that most local trail riders and 4x4s are not the ones that cause the problems but some come into the area and are intent on causing damage. LC said they have problems on Wolvens Lane every weekend. LC said they have put galvanized gates up but the 4x4s just drive into them. Mike Nash suggested holding an action day to try to catch some of the culprits before they go onto the BOAT. Mike offered to go out with LC one day to see the problems. / MN
8. / Communications
8.1 /

Byway Open to All Traffic signs: SM has received a quote for the replacement signs. It was suggested putting a QR code on the signs linking people to the website. The Trail Riders Fellowship (TRF) has offered to put the new signs up. David Wright thanked the TRF on behalf of the Group for their help. It was agreed that it would be favourable to include the 4x4 Club’s logo on the signs. PK to ask Andy Jackson if the logo has changed since the original signs were produced.

/ PK
9. /

Any Other Business

9.1 / Volunteers: SM confirmed that if groups of volunteers want to clear foliage etc using chainsaws and hedge cutters and are working in the County Council’s name, they need to work in compliance with SCC’s risk assessment.
9.2 / Trail Riders Fellowship: BC said the TRF tries to stop illegal users and to engage with them, explaining that what they are doing causes problems. Some people take their cards and membership of TRF is going up as a result. Three members of the TRF went to Buckland Parish Council to introduce themselves and to show that they are sensible and responsible. David Wright thanked them for their efforts.
9.3 / Wotton: GC confirmed that the Wotton Estate would support any restrictions on Wolvens Lane. GC said that as there is no funding to maintain it, it would now seem sensible to restrict use.
10. /

Date of next meeting

Monday 3rd July 2017
14:00 – 16:00
Warren Farm Barns


Circulation:

Chairman Cllr David Wright, Chairman Surrey Hills Board and

Guildford Borough Council

Support Officer: Pennie King, Surrey Hills AONB Unit

Landowner/manager:

Paul Redsell, National Trust

Mark Richards, National Trust

Tony Gregory, National Trust

Glen Boxall, Forestry Commission

Liberty Carlton, Forestry Commission

Lucy Bryce, Surrey Wildlife Trust

George Chapman, Batcheller Monkhouse

Edward Cheevers, Batcheller Monkhouse

Duncan Ferns, Buckland Estate

SCC: Steve Mitchell, Countryside Access Team Manager

Mike Nash, Partnership & Intelligence Officer

Users: Brian Cohen, Trail Riders Fellowship

Gail Brownrigg, Horse Drawn Carriage Drivers/Rider

Community/ PC: Stuart McLachlan, Capel Parish Council

Alan Pryor, Buckland Parish Council

Surrey Countryside

Access Forum: Graham Butler, Chairman of Surrey Countryside Access Forum

Copied for information to: Rob Fairbanks, Surrey Hills AONB Director Claire Saunders, Surrey County Council

Philip Trower, Batcheller Monkhouse

Sheena Boyce, Buckland PC

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