Mon Jul 21, 06:00:23 PM.Patrice Rey
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Wed Jun 04, 06:17:18 PM.Andrew Aouad
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On Patrices comments on E-reports,
At first when reading them they can sometimes be taken personally, and can be disheartening. However after time looking at the report it self (in my case the one we produced) and then looking at the comments made by Patrice, they are fair and justified. They are constructive critisms and are helpfull for the second E-report. I feel that the comments can guide our group into producing a better report.
The comments may have seemed a bit negative but, then, they were put up quickly. We weren't left around waiting to find out.
A positive comment can help reassure the faint hearted to be less disheartened and to see that your comments are there to help.
Tue Jun 03, 10:03:13 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day All
The Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia ( APESMA ), is the professional association that represents scientists on employment related matters in the workforce. Every year APESMA visits universities making presentations to students to give them a better understanding of life in the workforce as well we introduce students to APESMA and the services they provide.
Alex Leszczynski representing APESMA will visit the School of Geosciences on Wednesday 11 june noon (Branagan Room) to give 3rd year, Honours, and postgraduate students an industrial overview.
Cheers
Patrice
Tue Jun 03, 09:19:45 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day All
humm...I reflect on Bob and Verity messages....
In regard to Bob's comment: As a teacher I try to stay in touch with the group I teach, but I don’t mind being out of step. As you may have noticed I am proactive in asking for students feedback and I don't wait for the end of the semester to do so. Some of my colleagues pretend that this is the best strategy to get into trouble. I am sure you have noticed that on occasion I answer positively to students requests or concerns and, on occasion, and dare to stand by my own analysis and I accept to be out of step with the group on a particular issues. Really, is there anything wrong with that?
Am I sure that the decisions I made are always right? No, I don't. Am I sure that the present format is the best? No, I don't. I can only do what I think is best and explain to you why I have decided to stick to the original plan. In 2001 and 2002 students did three reports in three weeks. Indeed, as students face a new challenge they are concerned but, in the end, it went rather well. This year is not really different except that the concern started well before the exercise itself. By know most of you have realized that designing an Internet compatible document is not the hardest thing you have done this year!
In regard to Verity comments: I made my comments available as quickly as possible so everyone could get some feedbacks before to start the second E.Report. Consequently, the style of my comments is straight to the point and may seem a bit abrupt, but please note that I don’t make gratuitous comments they are all explained. If you feel that some comments are not appropriate or not relevant, then please let me know as you did for my comments on some of your reports’ links.
It is true that I preferentially comment on "bad things”as commenting on “good things” doesn’t help anyone to do better. I guess that: 1/ it is the shorter way to get things improved, and 2/ there are far more bad things than good things. But hey, as this is your first attempt with E.Report there is nothing abnormal with that. As far as I can judge most of you are standing on a normal progression path.
What is important is not that the reports are “good” or “bad” most of them have equivalent standing. What is important is that there is plenty of room for improvement and I believe you can learn how to write better reports and if in that process you learn how to put a document into a format compatible with Internet then even better.
On the issue of the workload I see groups doing timely progress, so not everyone seems overwhelm. Yes, these projects are demanding but my comments on the report length are usually along the line: There is too many of that and not enough of this. One of the interesting aspects of this type of exercise is that it teaches you time management. Yes, I know, you all can do better with more time. But in real life you will be given a finite amount of time to do a job. On completion no doubt that you will always think…If I had more time…
Finally, don’t give up and don’t feel disheartened, wait for real life challenge for that…
Cheers
Patrice
Tue Jun 03, 01:47:17 AM.Verity Borthwick
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Hello
Patrice: I just wanted to say can you please have another go at the links on the examples and styles parts of Group B's reports. I don't see why they didn't work for you since they are working perfectly well for me. Also the aulacogens link goes exactly to where it is supposed to (the glossary part of the page) so if you could have another look that would be much appreciated.
I'd just like to ask, did we do anything right in our report...you pretty much commented only on the bad things. I think you need to bare in mind that this was pretty much everyone's first go at doing something like this and given the amount of time we were allocated I think everyone did a really good job.
I don't know about everyone else but I am completely stressed out of my brain and I feel pretty disheartened by the feedback on the report. I know our group at least spent more than 18 hours each on it and i'm sure everyone else did as well given the quality of the Ereports (which I thought were suprisingly good). I am not quite sure what is expected since we have been told that we only need to do 18 hours of work and we did more than that....how many hours do you actually expect us to do?
Perhaps it is a case that the content in the reports was not as good as expected because everyone was trying to master the use of HTML - I know it took me quite a bit of time to figure it all out.
You said in your last blog that we should focus on a number of issues to make the report doable in 18 hours....but then in the feedback from the reports you have critisised people for not putting enough content in. I feel like there is absolutely nothing I can do about the situation and I'm about ready to give up.
Summing up I am discontent.
Verity
Tue Jun 03, 01:32:56 AM.Bob Ayres
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Patrice
With respect to your last post.
"I acknowledge your concern about time constraint and your feeling that you could design better reports should you have had two weeks for one single report. Personally I don?t"
I think this attitude is seriously out of step with the class sentiment.
Bob.
Mon Jun 02, 09:57:07 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day
Can everyone have a look at the E.Reports available on GEOS3003 site and give me a mark (0-10) base on the organization of the reports and the clarity of the explanation.
My email address is:
I will use your marks to moderate my own.
Thanks
Patrice
Patrice
Mon Jun 02, 04:29:39 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day All
After reading your E.Reports I conclude that there is plenty of room for improvement. Clearly some of you should be writting more reports not less.
I acknowledge your concern about time constraint and your feeling that you could design better reports should you have had two weeks for one single report. Personally I don’t think that this is obvious, the result could simply be longer reports with no improvement in the quality. Beside this single E.Report (your first in many case) will be worth the whole 35% with no chance to learn and improve from this first try.
If you feel your topic cannot fit into an 18 hours long report then it is up to you to focus on a number of issues to make the report duable in 18 hours. The report Introduction is there to say to the reader what is covered in the report and what is not.
Your report should be a collaborative effort of 3-4 brains working together to produce an18 hours long report. Quite frankly looking a some of the reports (not all of them) I wander where have the 54-72 hours of work been spent on?
For tomorrow (Wednesday 4 June) the challenge will be to finish a detailed plan of the second E.Report.
Cheers
Patrice
Sun Jun 01, 04:29:55 AM.phil hutson
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I just finished my part of the first e-report, it took me forever (the majority of the weekend).I am glad that it is over but cant believe I will have to spent all next weekend doing another one. I think it would have been much better if we just had to do one and we got two weeks to do it. That way we could produce one really good one instead of two rushed ones.
Thu May 29, 04:19:26 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day all
On the Public Holiday issue:
I am aware of the public holiday on Monday 9th, that's another reason to put the seminars on the following wednesday.
If one looks at the bright side of things, one may say: < Great, I will have more time to do my homework!>
After all we all: 1/ do work during week-ends, 2/ we have field courses during semestre breaks, 3/ we all know that holiday is a great time to do catch-up work, and 4/ who is going to celebrate the Queen's Birthday anyway?
If one feels that Queen's Birthday is such great even that everything has to stop on that day to reflect with due respect on the achievment of the Queen Elizabeth the Second, then I will accept for those people a E.report reduced to 12 hours.
Clashes with MARS3006 Assignment.
Any idea how to solve the problem?
Cheers
Patrice
Thu May 29, 12:31:54 AM.Laura Matarese
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Just a note on the second e report.
As we are doing the presentations on Monday, we will be starting the second e report on Wednesday. And as for this one, we'll have a week- 3 classes- to prepare. This would mean the classes on wed, and fri of next week, and Mon the weekafter, then present them on the wednesday. However, it is a public holiday on that Monday (9th June)! I guess this will bump things up a bit. I bring it up coz thats what a few of us were discussing on wednesday. Also, by the looks of things, people will need that extra time for their marine subject.
Wed May 28, 11:34:36 PM.Verity Borthwick
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I suppose it is not so much this first E-report that is going to cause the most problems (all though I still think one week is not enough) but the second one. The 2nd E-report will co-incide with a major MARS3006 assignment (worth 50%) which we only have 2 weeks to do and a large number of people in 3003 are also doing this subject. So while trying to do this we will also be trying to write a new E-report (with only a week to do it) at the same time...and where do we fit in studying for exams?
Tue May 27, 09:47:20 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day all
Our Division is organizing a staff-students meeting probably in the next couple of weeks.
The aim is to access how are thinks going in the first semestre.
I would be great to have a Rep for this class. Any volunteer?
Patrice
ps:
Tue May 27, 09:10:41 PM.Marianne Casimatis
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Re the pracs, I agree with Sam that there should be some unassessed pracs for us to learn on first, and then have more on the same topic that are assessable. We would get a lot more out of them this way instead of just going through them and wasting a lot of time just trying to figure out what we are supposed to do.
Re the e-reports, our group's report is going OK, but only because we started gathering info from last week. I think you need at least 10 days to get this done.
None of us had any idea how to write a web page before today. Patrice got us started, and we seem to be headed in the right direction now. It's not as scary as it sounds. Patrice, maybe some general instructions like you gave our group today would really help those who haven't done this kind of thing before. I don't expect that we will be able to produce a professional looking web page at first attempt, but at least we know where to start.
Re the weblog, I haven't had any problems with it. I think it can be a useful tool for a small class like ours once everyone gets the hang of it.
Marianne.
Tue May 27, 06:31:05 PM.Sam Lui
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On e-report. I think it's beneficial if we could have 2 wks (instead of presently 1) to prepare for the e-report, cos 1. we need time to digest the information we found from our research, and 2. a better presentation of the subject to the class would facilitate better learning.
On clashes. I'm happy abt the 6cp/course structure introduced this year, that we could have a higher degree of freedom as well as (supposingly) better time management. But then the second point failed becos (obviously) of the clashes. It feels terrible running between lectures while not completely listening to each of them.
On pracs. I think the exercises themselves are really rewarding (at least it's technically challenging and sensible). But then "many small ones and all assessed" seemed to be a problem not only for me. I suggest allocate some unassessed pracs (just for us to learn), and some assessed with a higher % (that we could really concentrate on presentation + contents).
Tue May 27, 05:42:07 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day all
Thanks for your comments so far. Keep them flowing...
P.
Tue May 27, 05:42:06 PM.Patrice Rey
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G'day all
Thanks for your comments so far. Keep them flowing...
P.
Tue May 27, 03:23:33 PM.Paul Williams
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Patrice,
I think the current workload is fine except for the E reports. Many students like myself are unfamiiliar in writing web pages and wouldn't know where to start. Some recommendations to consider:
would be to include basic web designing tutorials in your course
Tue May 27, 05:14:12 AM.Verity Borthwick
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THIS IS BOB via veritys login, i lost mine. :)
yes i agree, with the previous posts,
1. the work load and its intencity has disheartened me.
1.1 a secondary factor most to disheartened feeling about geos3003 is the clash put me behind the lectures and assignments.
2. the webblogger is a good idea, but its cumbersome and annoy if lose your password such as me. a local uni msg board would be much better.
3. with respect to the E reports, the detail involved and the quality of the report / learning. is in my opinion degraded with the limited time of one week. a single higher % marked e-report would be a better option.
cheerrs
all
ROCSOC bbq - tuesday 3rd be there!!! 12-2 approx
Mon May 26, 09:44:42 PM.Verity Borthwick
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Hi Patrice,
I agree that the clash has been a major factor in how I'm going thus far with this course. Also the overlap of assignments from the first half semester subjects was a big problem.
I think the pracs were okay but we didn't have enough time to complete them as they were difficult and were things which needed detailed explaining (and if you missed some of the explanation due to a clash then your pretty much lost).
The weblog is a good idea...obviously not everyone is going to utilise it but I'm sure it has been helpful for some of the class (and if this was a semester long subject more people would probably discover the usefulness of it...it just seems that this whole subject has gone so very quickly).
I also agree with Chiew that a week is definitely not long enough to do an E-report. Sure we could hand in something at the end of the week but it will not be good quality work, which I think generally defeats the purpose of using this format. I think if we were given more time to do it then we could hand in something professional and learn a lot more in the process. Also I think that a week for an assessment task worth 18% is not enough, especially given the fact that we are doing other subjects with major assessment tasks due. You have said that 18 hours of work each is all that needs to be done, but given that amount of time and having to work out how to use the programs and organise ourselves, we cannot hand in high-quality work. I personally know that it will take me more than 18 hours of work to present something substantial.
I suggest that instead of having two E-reports it would be more appropriate to have two weeks to do one, which would be worth the entire 35%. This would allow the students to actually learn properly how to use all the functions in designing such a report instead of handing in "shoddy" work. Also since these are due right before the exams and at the same time as other major tasks from other subjects, it is going to be difficult to find time to study for the exams.