Presentation Outline-
Jodie- She will open with an explanation of how 9/11 ties into our topic.
Was Strict Separation Intended between church and state?
Matt- The first question we need to ask is was strict separation of church and state intended by the framers of the constitution.
Jodie- Thomas Jefferson, an original founder of the constitution, would not allow himself as President to create a national day of prayer. He understood that church and state needed to keep distance between each other.
Matt- It is 2003, there has been a lot of time since the first amendment was created. The amendment itself is quite vague as it reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion of prohibiting the free exercise there of.” It is very possible the framers left it that way so as time went on it could be interpreted as the country felt fit.
Kathleen- If you want to talk about time than there is a quote in the Bible that is over 2000 years old that helped solve a similar problem. “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s”
Ray- Americans have endured traumatic events in the last few years, maybe now is a good time to let people decide the extent of separation of church and state.
Jodie- If we let people decide the extent of separation there is going to be a flood of schools with the Ten Commandments on their walls because a majority of people in America are Christian. Jodie than explains how North Carolina passed a bill that allows the Ten Commandments to be put up in public schools. The Bill of Rights was created to protect everyone, not the majority.
Matt- Like I said earlier, the point of the first amendment is to make sure a national religion is not created, not to keep religion out of our daily lives.
Faith-Based Initiative-
Matt- Let’s move along to our second topic, is the Bush’s faith-based initiative a good idea. First let me explain the Faith-Based Initiative. The goal is to give out federal grants to faith-based groups so that they can fund programs like soup kitchens and mentor programs for the less fortunate in the community.
Jodie- The problem with the program is that is uses tax dollars to fund faith-based groups. So a Muslim or a Jewish person might be paring taxes that the government is using to fund a Christian organization.
Matt- People have to pay tax money to fund government social programs anyways. Why not give the money to a group that is already established with programs that are set up and have proven positive results. The idea is to level the playing field so a programs is not discouraged from applying for a grant because it might have the word Jewish in its name for example. By putting emphasis on results and not the affiliation of a program tax money will be better spent on helping those that need it.
Kathleen- What if we start giving out federal money to faith-based groups and these groups than build a reliance on public funds to get by. Or even worse, what is some groups apply and than take off with the money or put it towards a different agenda. We can’t possibly monitor every group that applies for money.
Ray- The benefits will outweigh the losses because the organizations that are using the money properly already have programs set up that are assisting people.
Jodie- Well than how will you keep religious groups that need money from applying to save themselves rather than focusing on individuals in society that need services.
Matt- There will be some chances to take, however other parts of the faith-based initiative such as having FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, revise its disaster relief policy so religious non-profit organizations such as soup kitchens, schools, and homeless shelters can receive funds after a flood for example. Currently they are unable to receive federal disaster relief. They too provide valuable social services to the community and deserve federal funding when necessary.
School Prayer-
Kathleen- This takes us to our final topic, should school prayer be allowed in public schools. School prayer would be a direct violation against the first amendment which guarantees that no one person should have to go along with the religion of the majority.
Matt- Let me point out that there were no public schools in this country when the first amendment was written. There is no way to know how the framers felt about school prayer. That means today we have judges and politicians, opinionated ones that are interpreting the first amendment and might not represent the public’s view. 70-75% of parents favor school prayer. They should be able to decide if school prayer is allowed.
Jodie- About public schools not being around when the first amendment was written…the day public schools became funded by the government was the day that the first amendment became clear in dealing with prayer being allowed in public schools.
Ray- We should make prayer voluntary. If school prayer is no forced than it doesn’t infringe on anyone’s right to holding his or her own beliefs.
Jodie- Mention that 29 out of 4500 kids actually excused themselves and that peer pressure causes many kids to stay for a prayer they do not believe in. Also, teachers are authority figures to children, publicly paid authority figures at that, by leading prayer the teacher shows approval of a religion along with using tax money for a religious purpose.
Ray- A short prayer would only take up 30 seconds of the day. That is hardly enough time to take away from a child’s learning experience in school and would not be a large use of tax money.
Jodie- Well than why don’t you figure out what those 30 seconds would cost a taxpayer and mail a check to each parent with a child in public schools. The point is it still uses tax money. MENTION COURT CASE.
Ray- Well than if nothing else prayer might help alleviate some school delinquency problems.
Kathleen- One prayer has little chance to change the social problems that cause delinquent acts. The point is by using tax money to promote prayer there is a direct violation of the first amendment.
Closing Points-
Ray- It is very difficult to know the exact intent of those who created the bill of rights. However a point was made to have a separation of church and state and we must rely on the Supreme Court to make the right decisions regarding it.
Jodie- After 9/11 there has been a growth in the belief that Americans do not have enough religion in their lives. This is causing some courts to rule against a strict separation of church and state.
Matt- The faith-based initiative has some good ideas in it. However by funding faith-based groups with public money we start to skew the lines that are already being crosses between religion and government.
Kathleen- If it difficult to keep something as embedded in American heritage like religion of out school. We must remember by allowing school prayer we are paying tax money to promote a religion which violates the freedoms of the religious minority.