VIRGIN TOWN PLANNING & ZONING MEETING
FINAL MINUTES
WEDNESDAY February 13, 2013 6:30 pm
Virgin Town Office114 S. Mill St. Virgin, UT
PRESENT:
Planning & Zoning Members:
Dan Snyder, Chairman
C. Steve Masefield
C. Lori Rose
C. Chris Downard
C. Larry Amodt
Monica Bowcutt, Town Clerk
PUBLIC ATTENDEES:
Lee Ballard, TC LiaisonWanda LeverettBruce Densley
Bonnie TimmermanSandy McClurgLogan Checketts
Bob KellyRafael ChaconRobert Smith
Niles RitterJean KrauseRon Smith
Bill AdamsJay LeeLarry Pugh
Adele PincockMonte LutzJames Lee
Sean AmodtKen CorneliusKim Spendlove
Allen Lee
WORK MEETING: 6:00 PM
Presentation & Review of the Logan Checketts Zip Line Concept. Mr. Checketts was present; C. Snyder explained the public hearing process and the height limitations (18 feet) and Logan stated it would only be 15 feet if it was placed on the cliff and run 500 to 600 feet East, toward Falcon Ridge, the pole would be covered by the trees. It would run parallel to the Highway. After a short discussion about this not being allowed as a use, Logan stated they wondered about putting it under the outdoor recreational use instead. He left with the agreement the Planning & Zoning Commission would discuss it and email him. Discussion continued between Commissioners on Vacation Rentals as well as Zip line.
REGULAR MEETING:
- Call to Order: C. Dan Snyder called the Meeting to Order at 6:30 pm
- Declaration of Conflict of Interest: NONE DECLARED BY C. Rose, C. Masefield, C. Downard, C. Amodt, and C. Snyder stated he would consider Vacation Rental of his home if this was passed.
- Declaration of Ex Parte Communication:NONE DECLARED BY C. Snyder, C. Amodt, C. Downard. C.Rose stated she asked Lee Ballard about previous zip line discussion. C. Masefield stated he had communication with Hal Cannon.
- CLOSE PUBLIC MEETING: C. Masefield to Close Public Meeting, C. Rose 2nd, ALL AYES
OPEN PUBLIC HEARING: C. Masefield to Open Public Hearing, C. Rose 2nd, ALL AYES
a) PUBLIC HEARING: ZONING ORDINANCE #______: LIFTING PROHIBITION ON VACATION RENTAL OF HOMES FOR A LIMITED PERIOD OF TIME.
C. Masefield: Issues raised because people are losing homes & some are actively renting now, and people are asking why don’t we enforce our ordinance. We rely on the complaint-based system. We investigate the complaint, and action is taken. If so many are facing hardship, one opportunity is to rent out a room, or annex to house, we have to be careful not to undermine our congregate living standards. We don’t want to open flood gates, so we need boundaries. Don’t want to do it forever. We are not a destination town, there are a lot of accommodations in surrounding areas, but staying with family rather than hotel is a totally different experience, interacting with local people.
Hal Cannon’s letter in favor of the measure was read. Feels it would bring in revenue that the town could surely use. The fact that this is temporary would discourage people buying a home to use it just for this purpose.
C. Masefield pointed out some things: Has to be the owner or have a family member on site, opportunity for revenue for the town, revenue for the residents, control the number of days, strict conditions, number of people, number of cars.
Monte Lutz questions if we have received tax from him renting his home.
Kenny Cornelius said he has been Property Manager for a home in Sierra Bella, they have paid over $15,000 in Sales Tax in the last 3 years, some of which should go back to the city, and it has provided him a job for the last couple of years. “You say family has to manage rental: family and business don’t mix well.”
C. Masefield: If we allow absentee Landlord, if we say we can have a Property Management Co., then we open the door for Property Managers from outside coming in, buying a house with investment money, saying I will pay taxes & let a local person manage it for me, but they are outside of what we are trying to address, helping residents of Virgin.
C. Rose: reminded attendees of the temporary nature of this proposal, which makes it less likely people will come in just to invest for commercial purposes.
Monte Lutz: Why is it a bad thing for people to want to invest in our neighborhoods?
C. Masefield: expressed concern that investment by non residents in the use could drive up real estate prices, our local market priced out from underneath our local young people.
Ron Smith: If we are hurting for cash, who administers all rules & regulations & enforcement?
C. Masefield: Our hope is the system will be financed by fees from applications and Tax Revenue.
Jean Krause:
1) Resident: You need to define clearly the term resident.
2) Would you be Grandfathering in those houses that have been doing this for some time? Because we understand these houses were not built to rent, but they haven’t been able to sell. Then if they are Grandfathered, and they sell, what then? And the one’s renting now, rent for much less than the 250 days per year, and make plenty of money, to keep their homes, so that 250 day number will NOT discourage someone from building, intending to use as rental.
Monte Lutz: There’s a difference between renting my bedroom or renting a dwelling, will there be a demarcation? To protect the ordinance: how many people, traffic problems, parking problems, maybe noise problems. Also, I don’t support artificially depressing property values.
C. Masefield: We are not trying to control property values. If we allow an ordinance that would create a huge investment opportunity in Virgin for outside people, at the expense of the local Virgin population, I think we are doing a disservice to the Town. What we are trying to do is look out for our own people.
Monte Lutz: I’ll go on record as respectfully disagreeing with you, because you are creating an artificial system, bringing property values down.
C. Rose: The use that is being contemplated by temporary ordinance is recognized as a commercial use in a non- commercial zone, which could invite commercial valuation to occur in non-commercial zones.
Monte Lutz: You’ve done that, but I don’t agree. There’s a sunset, so my income is going to go away.
Adele Pincock: It’s insightful to consider this to help some people. I think it needs to remain temporary, 5 years or shorter. We already have in our ordinance, a Highway Resort Zone. Rentals can downgrade a neighborhood, this is an effort to avoid that, by keeping it temporary. This could promote our town, help residents make a little money & help the town make some money. Our existing ordinance makes lodging available, and by keeping this Temporary, it supports the integrity of the ordinance. This ordinance might encourage, over time, as the economy recovers, development of lodging options in the Highway Resort Zone. Number of occupants should be limited. Grandfathering current rentals is a bad idea, it’s an illegal use right now. Regarding demarcation between room and house, I would think you could write standards for each.
Bob Kelly: I’m in favor of Bed & Breakfast, western one story motels on the highway. My house has 2 extra bedrooms, each with a private bath and door going outside. We built it that way to have a B&B someday. On the actual ordinance, you guys have worked really hard to reduce the loss of residents & replace the loss of income here in Town. The Town needs to collect property tax and utility billings in order to pay the town's bills. Best way to find a solution is to carefully andcorrectly document the problems in detail. This proposal is too simplistic and too little words. It appears to do more harm than good. We agree we need to bring money into the Town, but we are on the wrong track.
Bob Kelly asked C. Snyder to read his printout. [include the printout with the minutes of the hearing]
Bob Kelly: A simple method to help property owners pay property tax is to simply fill out a county form to qualify for a real estate tax abatement. There are 4 ways to qualify and he stated he will drive someone to town to try to get their abatement, on his own gas.
Jean Krause clarified her previous statement on grandfathering in existing rentals. The owners don’t live in Virgin, they built intending to sell, couldn’t sell, and I don’t want to see them lose their home to foreclosure, but if you grandfathered them in, limit the grandfathering time, to the time of the temporary ordinance. It might encourage them to get the house sold.
Rafael Chacon warned about the tax consequences of obtaining an EIN number, and explained the difference between passive and active income..he explained that when someone is renting a house, the IRS expects that income on schedule E, on the 1040. If someone is renting a room and it’s over $500 a year, the IRS expects that to be on Schedule C, if they are running a business, and there is a substantial difference in how the income is taxed, and what deductions apply.
Bob Kelly noted that the state Personal Property Tax includes tax on your desk, chair, telephone, computer, file cabinet, file drawers, pens, pencils; they make a list and tell you what it’s worth and what you owe them.
Rafael Shacon: warned that obtaining an EIN number for this use could affect your residential exemption for property taxes.
Monte Lutz: I support your ordinance and thanks for trying to help us out. I comply with State level, takes me about a half an hour. I’ve done rentals for more than a month, and we have sales taxes coming in, that’s why I want to be sure the Town is getting what it should get. That sounded really scary and it’s not that scary. It’s a form online, send it in, send in what we owe, and they take care of it. It’s not that bad.
Lee Ballard clarified that the proposal is NOT a “temporary land use ordinance” under state code 10-9-85-40, which can be adopted without Public Hearing and Planning & Zoning Commission recommendation. That section of the code does not apply. In addition to helping people keep their houses and bringing in a little revenue for the Town, this could be a good experiment; if we did this for 2 years or something, and it worked out, maybe we would consider overhauling the Ordinance, so it would fit into zoning rules, and decide to adopt it permanently, alternatively we might decide to not even consider doing that. Addressing 'grandfathering' for future owners, the draft clearly says the use is not transferable. She didn't know why anybody would need an EIN number to do this. All you would need is a Sales Tax or Use Tax Number from the State. Yes, it would have consequences for your taxes. There would be extra forms, and probably a personal property tax bill or form in May.
George Rodinos spoke in opposition to the proposal. He recounted an incident where visitors on 4-wheelers damaged a planted field, and wondered who would be responsible for offsite damage done by vacation renters if the owner is not present. He questioned how the proposed 250 day limit would be implemented.
C. Masefield: state that the permit would limit rentals to no more than 250 days in any calendar year.
Bruce Densley noted that a lot of the subdivisions have CC&R’s prohibiting short term rentals, and questioned how the town would enforce the 250 day limit. He stated concern about the burden on the town of enforcement.
Sean Amodt spoke in favor of the concept, recommended some edits to the language in the ordinance, questioned the 250 day rule, wanted the rental of rooms separated from the rental of houses, suggested that the town is discouraging large hotels and allowing potential revenue to go elsewhere, and wondered about penalties.
Gina Amodt stated our resort zone has a lot to do with our long term goals.
Bonnie Timmerman said that the town can’t issue permits, if it’s against CC&Rs. Utah Code Section 540: quick passage of ordinance can only last 6 months. You are merging one particular ordinance into every zone. It is very hard to take it away, or enforce it and we are not enforcing it now. We could cite the ones doing this now to create revenue. This use would change the dynamics of neighborhoods; cars coming in, people coming in, neighbors don’t know.
Lee Ballard - The town can not mention CC&R in our Ordinance. In the packet maybe we could say in bold, to verify whether your CC&R allows you to do this.
Monte Lutz - Any credit Card transactions are forwarded to the State.
Bonnie Timmerman - Out of 17 homeowners I spoke with, 15 are against it, 1 yes, and 1 no comment. They don’t think it’s a good idea for the Town to do this.
Bob Kelly - I am grateful for how our Government is at work here tonight.
Jay Lee - Viracon in St. George, just announced closing it’s doors.
Ken Cornelius stated that the Sierra Bella rental has paid $15,000 in taxes in the last 3 years, and has been of help to him.
b) PUBLIC HEARING: AMENDMENTS TO HOME OCCUPATION STANDARDS
Ch. Snyder - On to Home Occupation / Business License - Right now an application for a Business License requires a Home Occupation Permit to accompany it. It has been proposed that we change that.
Sean Amodt - I was hoping this would apply to my ice cream bus but I’m still really in a gray area. It needs to clarify what is exempt and when a permit is required.
Adele Pincock wanted clarification of when a Home Occupation Permit is required versus just a business license.
Lee Ballard - said the current draft has renamed it a Home Occupation License, which is a type of Business License.
Adele - Things that might be considered forms of exemption: Hours of operation and Deliveries beyond those of fed ex or ups.
Bonnie Timmerman - Home Occupation License is a form of Business License, which is not allowed by our CC&R. 6.2 Shows exemptions - trucks at home. Our CC&R is residential.
Lee Ballard - This applies to residential areas.
C. Amodt - It doesn’t change residential nature - doesn’t impede residential nature - the ordinance is all about keeping people from putting Business in a Residential area. We have to determine if it will change that nature - lot of people, sign age, traffic.
C. Downard – moved to close Public Hearing and Open Public Meeting: C. Masefield 2nd, AYES UNANIMOUS
Item #4, C. Rose moved to continue discussion on item to next meeting so they could consider all the valuable comments the public offered. C. Amodt thinks Commission should also discuss their own input
C. Downard 2nd, C. Masefield - NAY - wanted to hear C. Amodt’s concerns.
C. Amodt stated the town definitely needs to define resident. People need to decide if their residence is here or in SLC or Idaho or CA. He wondered why limit it to 250 days.
C. Masefield - Because if we allow 365 days that doesn’t stop someone from buying a home & putting a congregate living Facility here.
Lee Ballard - Some of this will be covered when the rules are written.
C. Amodt - my real problem is #3; We created a level of Government interference here. It says permits will be issued by the Town of Virgin following the building inspector's approval. Doesn’t that home have a COA already? C. Rose - It’s a residence - it’s a misuse of commercial….
C. Amodt - If I bring home a new baby - that’s another person in the home - is the building inspector going to come in?
C. Masefield - You get a COA when you build a home & live in it, but if you turn it into a business enterprise, you need to have code by the State Law, that says you have egress sign age, availability to exit, fire extinguishers and smoke alarms - big difference between that and a COA.
C. Amodt - Why do we need to make this a business?
C. Masefield - Because we want to collect sales tax.
C. Amodt - So it’s not a Temporary Ordinance - so it will go on forever?
C. Masefield - It’s not a Temporary Ordinance, it has a sunset. If successful, we’ll change the Ordinance to reflect the new dynamics in town, If not it will go away.
C. Amodt - Every street in town has rentals, someone in basement, or bedroom.
Lee Ballard - So you are saying it needs to say SHORT TERM Rental- that's correct, and easily fixed.
Amodt - In order to have an investigation there needs to be a complaint. If that hasn’t happened in all these years, does that constitute Public acceptance of the use?
Bonnie Timmerman - I assumed if the town knew people were doing something wrong, the Town would stop them whether they got a complaint or not.
C. Amodt - That’s never been the case.
Lee Ballard - But complaints can not be anonymous.
Amodt - If it’s not a permitted use, it’s an illegal use. Need to separate those uses.
C. Rose to continue discussion to next months meeting. C. Downard 2nd, ALL AYES.
C. Downard to approve Dec. 12, 2012 minutes, as Amended, C. Amodt 2nd, ALL AYES
C. Rose to approve January 9,2013 minutes, C. Masefield 2nd, C. Snyder-AYE, C. Rose-AYE,
Masefield-AYE, C. Amodt-AYE, C. Downard-Abstain ( I wasn’t here)
C. Masefield to Adjourn P&Z Meeting, Ch. Snyder 2nd, ALL AYES
Meeting adjourned at 8:45 PM
______
Monica Bowcutt, Town Clerk
Approved: ______