Nursing Education and Faculty Resources Workgroup
Clinical Placement Subgroup
Meeting Agenda
Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:00 – 3:00 PM CST
Teleconference Call Number 1-800-511-7985 access code 715-7561
Leader PIN number (1st person on- use PIN to start call) 3814
Workgroup Members: Stacey Pfenning (chair), Barbara Diederick, Jane Roggensack, Kate Steinke
Guest for this meeting: Mary Smith
1. Introductions: Barbara Diederick, Jane Roggensack, Kate Steinke, Mary Smith
2. Review notes from last meeting (attached). Elect a recorder that will take notes and email them to Patricia
3. Goal 3: Explore methods to coordinate clinical education at the statewide level (see workplan on website for more detail)
· Review new drafts of clinical placement maps that have been revised based on recommendations. Discuss next steps.
o Nursing clinical sites Dec 2012 (see attached)- all clinical sites for all programs indicated. Counties shaded that have clinical placements. Out of state sites are indicated by a black box.
§ The circles are depicting where a school has a site that is outside of its home city.
§ Jamestown has many programs that go to the state hospital and the Anne Carlson center.
§ Lots of sites in Bismarck/Mandan.
§ Hard to see some of the sites- if they were different shapes- might make it easier.
o LPN clinical sites Dec 2012 (see attached)- only LPN clinical sites and out-of state clinical sites
§ There are some sites that are added to this map that aren’t used on the RN map.
§ Are the LPN sites more long term care? They are long term care and acute care.
§ For some of the counties without placements- they don’t have hospitals- but they do have long term care. But, have to meet NDBON standards- student/nurse ratios.
§ Does give us an idea of where there are areas and where there are areas we could use.
o RN clinical sites Dec 2012 (see attached)- only RN clinical sites and out of state clinical sites
§ Map narrows it down so that you can see just which RN programs are using which sites.
§ The programs only use some of the sites for part of the year.
§ Might need to be more anecdotal- can’t really include that information on the map.
§ Where are the out of state students coming from? Are they Rasmussen or where are they coming from? Patricia will provide the list of the out of state placements to the group.
§ How do we get the information for when the clinical sites have students, which semesters do they use the sites?
§ Patricia indicated that is not readily available- would have to ask individual schools. It is not available
§ Fargo has a clinical site calendar available on Google. When there is a change.
§ The school submits their clinical requests in March. That information gets uploaded in April and looks to see if there is overlap. It is up on a Google Calendar- it is a moving target. Sites sometimes get merged or expanded. They fill out a change form and it is uploaded into our Google Calendar each week. All of the schools can go on the website and see if there is vacant spot. If a school doesn’t want to use a particular clinical, they can opt not to use it for one semester. Based on the Oregon model which is really just an excel spreadsheet. It is there so people can see what is available.
o APRN clinical sites Dec 2012 (see attached)- only APRN clinical sites and out of state sites
§ Does Minot state have an APRN program? No we don’t. Minot does have clinical sites for APRN students.
§ Placing APRN students is a huge challenge. These placements are tough. In Fargo for example, students don’t want to leave the area for their clinical- they are locked into this area. They end up competing with the PA and Medical Students.
§ U of Mary is across many areas of the state. Are they online students? How did they get these placements out there?
§ Some of the out of state are NP students in specialties that are not available local- such as neonatal NPs.
§ Do get a lot of activity for those attending online for APRNs.
§ Would be good to have Carla Gross view this as well.
o ND Hospitals, clinics and long term care facilities (see attached)
§ What would be helpful is having all of the facilities identified and then a square when it is utilized. Would be interesting to see which facility they are using there?
§ For example in Grand Forks- how many long term care facilities are there and which programs are using them?
§ When you look at the some of these counties- they don’t have any sites. How are they going to get nurses? NDSCS is looking at doing some outreach site in some of these areas- but need to have students that are prepared to start.
§ Dickinson they may use Bowman, slope etc. They have to find qualified faculty to teach.
§ LPN sites are not across the bottom of the state- they have such a role in long term care.
§ NDLTC has a scholarship.
§ Are the state wide groups talking about this? Patricia has presented the results from the spotlight report that has some dire projections for LPN supply and demand.
§ The better students go on to get their RN- it is a financial decision- better salary.
§ Many facilities can’t keep their LPNs.
§ We need to do a better job talking with our students- if LPNS go onto get their RN- they may not be able to retain their job- may have to move if they don’t need an RN there. They may leave their rural area.
§ Does anyone else have a Google spreadsheet like Fargo? FM Collaborative group
§ In MSP they have a person that coordinates all of the clinical and puts it onto a spreadsheet and they can look at the facility and see the schools are there. There is a cost to this to both the schools and the facilities. Who is in charge of it right now? They had a grant to do it. TCCP- clinical coordination calendar.
§ Given the climate of the university system- asking for more money is going to be difficult.
· Review site coordination information from Education Program survey (see attached) (additional surveys were received after your last meeting)- Next Steps? At last meeting discussed developing a list of APRNs/NPs that would like to precept, obtaining information on housing availability for rural sites and developing a model for clinical site coordination for APRN programs, incentives for preceptors, preceptor training module
o Having a hard time finding appropriate mentors and preceptors at clinical sites.
o They are the seasoned BSRN that are moving to another environment- so we loose our expert nurse to serve as a preceptor. Decreases our ability to have
o We had big turnover in staff. We had a lot of BSRN staff that moved. Placing BSRN students is getting more difficult.
o We had a 10% in practicum experiences and we had a 13% decrease in places to have sites.
o Students that have just graduated with a BSRN-they feel it is below them to practice at the bedside- that they should be doing higher level stuff.
o More limited clinical site availability. If clinical facilities have new staff- they can’t use them as preceptors- they need to get them going.
o It is going to impact programs and number of students in programs and meeting our NDBON requirements. In the clinical area- they have to have the resources available and the right expertise.
o I am going through that now- trying to place preceptorships- we want them to have a good experience. Some places are only taking one student.
o Ends up creating a bottleneck. Would you great to have some training for preceptorships and move it around the state.
o Sometimes, I may have eight requests from one school for family birth- but can only take 1 student.
o Some of the schools are having problems getting placed as the
o If you are using out of state placements- they are putting up more criteria and barriers.
o Instructors do need to have the training on the floor. That is part of their orientation. It is rare to find someone that works at the site that wants to do a clinical site. They need to be trained to be able to familiar with the floor. The education program should be responsible for that training.
o Might want to address this in CUNEA. The 24 hour training on the floor is a surprise. Faculty does usually go to orientate themselves there. Patricia will add it to the CUNEA list.
o I think we need to show them where the sites are.
o Maybe explore Google Maps. We would have to start out small and do regionally.
o Some of the newer programs are trying to get into some of the areas.
o Advanced Practice- if they are trying to go out to rural areas.
o For BSRN students- public health clinical experiences- are even more in dire need with less opportunities than the hospital/acute care experiences. Maybe an option to meet with the Public Health DON group. Jeanna Kujava is a part of this group- Pembina/Cavalier county
o Schools are branching out a bit.
o When I went to college- we were told we had to have a car to do our public health experience. You will not be placed in this same county. Now they all want to stay local.
o The programs are told that they need to travel for their experiences.
o At some point it would be great to have what you can expect from a Junior or from a Senior nursing student. Maybe CUNEA could look at this. It is kind of a patient safety issue.
4. Anything else?
5. The next Nursing Education and Faculty Resources workgroup meeting will be February 14th from 1:00 – 2:30 PM. What would you like to discuss regarding clinical placements during this meeting? What would you like feedback on?
§ Want to present the maps that we have and touch on some of the bullets from the survey results. Highlights of where there isn’t any clinical placements. Maybe look at succession planning- would some communities be interested in having students now. Maybe looking at the APRN placements.
§ Meet with LTC and getting on their agenda- maybe more regional. Meeting with the Public Health DON groups.
§ Get some input from the larger group.