12 - 15 May 2014doc.: 18-14/0032r00

IEEE 802.18
Radio Regulatory-TAG

Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group Minutes
Date: 12 – 15May, 2014
Author(s):
Name / Affiliation / Address / Phone / email
Jay Holcomb / Itron / Liberty Lake, WA / 509-891-3281 /

Abstract

Minutes of the RR-TAG meeting in Waikoloa, HI, USA;12 – 15 May, 2014

These are the minutes of IEEE 802.18 meeting in Waikoloa, HI; 12-15 May, 2014.

Monday, 12 May, 2014; PM1

  1. The Chair called the meeting to order at 13:32.
  2. The Vice Chair reminded the members to record their attendance.
  1. There was some discussion about the 802.15 joining in the 802.11 Regulatory Standing Committee (SC) for a joint committee. This will be discussed this week and planned to take affect at the July Plenary.
  1. The current agenda is document 18-14/0023r01.
  1. Paul Nikolich would like to see an estimated duration for each item. With some discussion and adding clarity, we walked through all the items and did a quick estimate and added a column for duration.
  2. There was some discussion on high level process on how we work with the other Working Groups, how they bring to 802.18 what they need through the week, we generally don’t have that at the beginning of the week.
  3. We made few other minor clerical updates to the agenda making it 18-14/0023r02.
  1. The following motion was made:
  1. Motion: To approve the RR-TAG agenda for the May 2014 Interim Meeting, 18-14/0023r02.
  1. Move by: Rich Kennedy
  2. Second by: John Notor
  3. Discussion: None
  4. Vote: 7 Yes0 No0 Abstain
  5. Motion: Passed
  1. The Chair reminded members, as they learned today at the other opening Plenaries aboutthe cell phone courtesy policy,anti-trust provisions of IEEE 802, the Patent questions and Policy, inappropriate topics per the IEEE requirements, and Letters of Assurance (LOA).
  1. The Chair reviewed future IEEE 802 sessions and venues.
  1. Athens cost is still being discussed w.r.t. the social and we may not hear until July about it.
  2. However at this point the cost to attend is $850 less the social event.
  3. Question was asked on the cost of the hotels, and more info on that will be coming.
  1. Had a discussion that we should start to keep track of attendees, for the series of meetings the minutes cover.
  2. It was determined we don’t have to break out who was at what session, just a final list.
  1. We reviewed the Beijingminutes and corrected the ITU-R WP 5D document number from 18-14/014r0 to 18-14/016r0 in a couple of places.
  2. We made a few other clerical updates in the file information and made 18-14/0022r01, which was uploaded to approve.
  3. However with further discussion we will add attendance to the minutes yet, for a 18-14/0022r02 for approval later in the week.
  1. Old Business:
  2. Question on the 802.16 submission for M.1457 in Beijing.
  3. The submission indicates it includesthe certification B and GCS Proponent documents. Are they being submitted with the submission?
  4. We determined we need to get a hold of Roger Marks and does he have these 2 documents.
  5. Jim Ragsdale brought up the point that we can send separately, though we need to have them.
  6. The submission has not been sent (due 11June), so we have the opportunity to get these two supporting documents.
  7. The Chair sent an email to Roger during the meeting and will work to get these supporting documents.
  8. Actually by the end of the meeting Roger replied and has the two documents and will get them to Mike Lynch, before submitting the package to ITU-R.
  1. The Chair reviewed the remainder of the agenda.
  1. Impact of the FCC's drone rules
  2. Mike Lynch has a document from Mike Marcus on the concern of what the drones could do to the unlicensed spectrum.
  3. The FCC and FAA are reviewing and making rules for drone operations, with all the visibility in recent months.
  4. A concern is the public may want to make jammers, in the unlicensed band, to block the droneswhich will cause interference and reduced performance to other unlicensed users in the area.
  5. The Chair will review the document further and will bring back to the RR-TAG if there is anything we should consider to make comments on.
  1. ITU-R contribution on the mid 5GHz band
  2. The Chair is going to review further the French document, 5A-0254 from 11May, and will bring back to the RR-TAG if there is anything we should comment on.
  3. Some discussion on where is this document and looks like it is in the As Received list, since there is no formal document number. So actually it is not an official contribution yet.
  4. Comments are not due till the October/November time frame, so there is some time to respond.
  5. Rich Kennedy commented this use could easily be covered by a database to reduce the chance of interference to others.
  6. The Chair will hold to upload to Mentor till results of the current ITU meetings that are going on now.
  1. Now the Vice-Chair went through further agenda items.
  2. Globalstar NPRM
  3. They are asking the FCC to provide a service and to extend the spectrum (for their use.)
  4. Comments were due last Monday, and there were 15 commenters.
  5. The Vice-Chair helped with a couple of the comments.
  6. There was indications they may want to make an LTE service, as they are doing what they can to survive.
  7. Their claim is folks will move up in spectrum to their managed services.
  8. Some thinking is the FCC will say do this in an unlicensed Part15 part of the band.
  9. IEEE in March suggested that the WiFi alliance and others could comment and IEEE did not need to. (This does affect 802.11 and 802.15)
  10. Reply Comments are due 04June.
  11. We determined there is nothing specific for the RR-TAG this week.
  1. FCC FNPRM on 3.5 GHz band
  2. The FCC is reviewing the FNPRM and it has not been published yet. It is expected to have 45 / 20 day Comment /Reply Comment periods.
  3. Rich Kennedy commented about several different users in the spectrum:
  4. Licensed incumbents (radars and more).
  5. Priority Access Licenses (PALs - this is new).
  6. These are 1 year at a time, and can buy up to 5 years.
  7. What is left will be auctioned.
  8. Then unused spectrum at this point will be open to unlicensed users, for General Authorized Access using the geo-location data base, to gain access (or not).
  9. However there are FSSs around the country
  10. And there are exclusion zones in from the shores.
  11. etc.
  12. FCC commissioners are asking if Small Cells could work?
  13. The RR-TAG will review the FNPRM when it is published.
  14. (What is available was uploaded later in the week: 18-14-0029r00; 3.5GHz FNPRM FCC 14-49)
  1. FCC May 15th meeting to discuss the incentive auctions
  2. One agenda item is on the auctions for the TV Bands, the TVWS.
  3. Several will listen to learn more on the auction process details. Some discussion on the auction process; very high level:
  4. Incentive auction to open up broadcast spectrum.
  5. Quickly the FCC auctions what opened up to the LTE folks.
  6. Then there are bits and pieces left for un-licensed use.
  1. 5 GHz R&O petition for reconsideration re DFS changes
  2. In the 5150 – 5250 band, the FCC has increased the power and removed indoor use only, though antennas used outside will have a very limited gain at higher elevations.
  3. Question is has anyone figured out this specific antenna configuration can be done, and doesn’t sound like it.
  4. There are others pieces of the re-consideration, on layout of the spectrum ranges and DFS changes.
  5. The 802.11 Reg. SC is going to review the DFS points and are comments needed back to the FCC or not?
  6. Another piece in here is for the Terminal Doppler radars, that the WiFi devices cannot be changed by the user, as it was found earlier the legal devices were not causing interference to the radars.
  7. We should hear back from the 802.11 SC later in the week.
  8. (This was uploaded later in the week: 18-14-0028r00; 5 GHz Report & Order FCC14-30)
  1. The Chair recessed the meeting at 15:29until Monday PM2

Monday, 12 May, 2014, PM2

  1. The Chair called the meeting to order at 16:05.
  2. The Vice-Chair reminded the members to record their attendance.
  1. We continued reviewing the agenda items.
  1. 5 GHz KDB test plans still open for comments
  2. Nothing for 802.18 at this point; though the 802.11 reg. SC will look at this. Comments are due quick, 23May.
  1. Ofcom LTE in 2.3 (and 3.4) GHz band consultation
  2. Discussion was how the adjacent out of band emissions from LTE are blocking the adjacent license exempt users.
  3. Ofcom has been approached about this.
  4. Rich Kennedy will upload the file here for all to review.
  5. (This was uploaded later in the week: 18-14-0030r00; Ofcom PSSR Consultation)
  1. EC Mandate on LTE in 2.3 GHz band
  2. Very similar to above, they need to consider the adjacent OOB.
  3. Rich Kennedy will upload the files for review.
  4. (This was uploaded later in the week:18-14-0027r00; EC Mandate 2.3 GHz Band)
  1. Ofcom spectrum statements
  2. Rich Kennedy will upload files and will bring back any input from the 802.11 Reg. SC later in the week.
  3. (This was uploaded later in the week: 18-14-0025r00; Ofcom Spectrum Management Strategy)
  4. (This was uploaded later in the week: 18-14-0026r00; Ofcom Spectrum Sharing Strategy)
  1. Review/update the .18 charter
  2. Will discuss Tuesday AM1(08:30)
  3. We did do a quick look at this 1 pager and probably we will be okay to leave as is.
  4. If okay, could just add a note in the title of the charter, it has been re-affirmed in May 2014 and then we don’t make any “changes”.
  1. Review/update the .18 P&P, possibly draft an OM as needed.
  2. For the P&P the discussion was to use the 802 one as is, and then ‘dismiss’ the 802.18 P&P.
  1. For the Operations Manual (OM) we have been using the 802 one, however we should look at having an 802.18 specific one, at least with what is unique for the RR-TAG.
  2. 802.11 is also doing a new OM, # 629. It has not been uploaded so not available to look at, as the thought was use it as a base or at least some ideas, and build the 802.18 from it.
  3. The Vice-Chair will see if he can get an advanced draft copy sooner.
  1. Feedback on the 802.16 End of Life proposal
  2. John Notorwas on a call with Roger Marks, that they do not have enough folks to finish up the last few projects.
  3. One was on wireless network performance measurements testing that really is not part of 16.
  4. The other two are amendments are for the 16 standard, and maybe they could be moved to another WG, e.g. 15, to finish up.
  5. multi-tier networks, 802.16q
  6. small cell backhaul, 802.16r
  7. However, with this end of life, and looking at the two amendments, the discussion was just to suspend the amendments and let the WG go into hibernation.

The consensus of the 802.18 RR TAG is for the WG 802.16 to go into hibernation. (And let the open tasks hibernate also.)

  1. The Chair recessed the meeting at 16:50until Tuesday AM1

Tuesday, 13 May, 2014, AM1

  1. The Chair called the meeting to order at 08:30
  2. The Secretary reminded the members to record their attendance.
  1. Review/update the 802.18 charter
  2. We reviewed the existing Charter, 18-02-0012r01, where the Vice-Chair added to the original charter in the title. … and reaffirmed by the RR-TAG on May 13, 2014. This version was uploaded to Mentor as: 18-14-0024r00
  1. The following motion was made:
  1. Motion: To approve the RR-TAG reaffirmed Charter, 18-14/0024r00.
  1. Move by: Rich Kennedy
  2. Second by: Jim Ragsdale
  3. Discussion: None
  4. Vote: 4 Yes0 No0 Abstain
  5. Motion: Passed
  1. Discussion then on the 3GPP proposed liaison, that was Laid on the table at the Beijing meeting. We have found out recently it was sent, so not per the motion.
  2. This came up during the discussion on the minutes for the March 2014 Beijing meeting.
  3. We are trying to understand how this happened after the vote to lay it on the table.
  4. We reviewed the EC minutes and page 105 is not complete as we understand it. True the members drafted (but did not approve) a version, and was already adjourned by PM2. The EC closing minutes:
  1. Paul Nikolich came in at this time, and briefly this was not an 18 document, as the EC took it on to send from the EC.
  1. We had a longer discussion on what happened, here is brief synopsis.
  1. This activity started out with a request from Paul Nikolich for inputs and a draft of a document to send to 3GPP on areas of mutual interest to 820 LMSC and 3Gpp, a liaison.
  1. What the RR TAG worked on during the Beijing meeting was the 82-14/0018 document, which in the end was laid on the table at the end of the meeting, so noted in the 18-14/0022 meeting minutes.
  1. After the RR TAG meeting adjourned, several continuing work with Paul Nikolich on an EC document, now 82-14/0019.
  1. The slide presented at the EC closing meeting was not clear that the document was not from the RR TAG, but was a document by the EC using information from what the RR TAG had done.
  2. In the exec minutes, page 106it is stated this activity was by request of the IEEE 802 Chair, a draft liaison request letter from IEEE 802 to 3GPP.
  3. Noting in the executive minutes that the motion was to approve 82-14/0019r00 but in the end it was r02 that was sent to 3GPP.
  4. Looking at the revisions, there were only clerical updates e.g. moving to letter head from Paul Nikolich and the IEEE 802, etc.
  1. The minutes of the March 2014 Plenary Meeting, 18-14/0022r02, were reviewed.
  2. We added the 18-14/0018 document number on the 3GPP motionthat laid it down, for clarity. (see discussion above on the 3GPP request.)
  1. The following motion was made:

Motion: To approve the November 2014 Plenary held at the China World Hotel in Beijing, China, March 17-21, 2013; 18-14/0022r02.

Move by: Rich Kennedy

Second by: Peter Ecclesine

Discussion: None

Vote: 2 Yes0 No2 Abstain

Motion: Passed

  1. Review/update the 802.18 P&P.
  2. Current thinking is to ‘dismiss’ the current 802.18 P&P and use the 802 one.

Actually per executive request we will no longer have or use a 802.18 specific P&P, so as of this meeting the 802.18 P&P, 18-09/0022r01 is no longer in effect.

  1. We looked at the list of P&P documents:
  2. the existing802.18 P&P:18-09/0022r01
  3. and the 802 P&P:LMSC 802 P&P.pdf.
  4. and the 802 P&P working update:IEEE_802_PandP_v14.pdf
  5. and the 802 WG P&P: IEEE_802_WG_PandP_v15.pdf
  1. After the looking at these, we will go by and use the 802 WG P&P, currently version 15. Here is the link today:
  1. The Chair recessed the meeting at 10:15 to Tuesday AM2

Tuesday, 13 May, 2014, AM2

  1. The Chair called the meeting to order at 11:25
  2. The Vice Chair reminded the members to record their attendance.
  1. For clarity, upon the request to list the attendees in the minutes moving forward, we will at minimum use the list from the attendance server that the Vice Chair will send the secretary after the meetings.
  2. Point is, we should only use one list so not to have any discrepancies and with the attendance server being used, it should be the one used.
  1. For the Operations Manual (OM), feedback is the 802.11 draft is 40 pages and will take some time to complete, so it will not be done this week.
  1. The Chair recessed the meeting at 11:30 to independent study until Tuesday PM2 at the 802.11 reg. SC. Further meeting calls will come from the reflector to the RR TAG, depending on the 802.11 reg. SC outcome.

Tuesday, 13 May, 2014, PM1

  1. we are in recess

Tuesday, 13 May, 2014, PM2

  1. We are in recess
  2. Side note: At the 802.11 reg. SC meeting, most all items brought out above were presented to the 802.11 Reg. SC, and there was no interest from anyone to act on any of the items from the IEEE perspective.

Wednesday, 14May, 2014, AM1

  1. The Chair called the meeting to order at 08:30
  2. The Secretary reminded the members to record their attendance.
  1. Paul Nikolich stepped in and the Chair brought up a point that in the 802 P&P that the % of votes (for a TAG) in the latest version should be reviewed. Paul Nikolich brought up that there is process and we should work with James Gilb. The Chair acknowledged and will get a hold of James Gilb.
  1. The Chair had requested from the 802.15 liaison (JohnNotor) and 802.22 (Peter Flynn) if they had anything for 802.18 this week. The chair has not heard back. (Later in the meeting, John Notor came in and there is nothing from 802.15 this week.)
  1. We reviewed more of the details in the (LMSC) IEEE_802_PandP_v14.pdf
  2. Had a good discussion and now a better understandingon the only need for TAG voting membership is based on pattern of attending meetings, as noted in section 4.2 and 4.1.
  1. Looking at section 5.5 d) on specifics for a TAG;
  2. In the past we (802.18) had two categories and would like to get a better definition from James Gilb of what a TAGis in the updated P&P. Actually this topic came up as some of the bullets here show the TAGs always being more technical, however ever 802.18 is more procedural.
  3. 5.5 d) today:

A document can only be represented as the position of a TAG if it has attained approval by a vote of the TAG. Such votes are considered to be technical votes, and require approval by 75% or more to pass.

  1. proposed:

A document can only be the output of a TAG if it has attained approval by a vote of the TAG. The Chairmay determine if the document is procedural or technical. A technical document approval requires 75% or more, and a procedural document approval requires 50% or more.

  1. Note: Looking at the voters list, today we have 11 voters for a quorum of 6.
  1. The Chair recessed the meeting at 09:55 to independent study until Wednesday PM1

Wednesday, 14 May, 2014, AM2

  1. Midweek Plenaries.
  2. Side note: At the 802.15 mid-week Plenary, Bob Heile did a nice announcement on the adding a few 802.15 representative to the 802.11 reg. SC for collaboration. Bob went through a very nice explanation on a few of the details. 2 that stood out:
  3. If the combined 11 & 15 SC can get to one document to send to 802.18 that is a bonus, but if it is still 2 documents like today that is fine.
  4. Also, the standing meeting time will be Tuesday AM2.

Wednesday, 14 May, 2014, PM1