MINUTES of ASHRAE TC 6.6

AMERICAN SOCIETY OF HEATING, REFRIGERATING AND AIR-CONDITIONING ENGINEERS, INC.

1791 Tullie Circle, N.E./Atlanta, GA 30329

404-636-8400

TC/TG/TRG No: TC 6.6 TC/TG/TRG TITLE: Service Water Heating DATE: February 1, 2009

DATE OF MEETING: January 26, 2009 LOCATION: CHICAGO, IL USA

Participants / Present / Absent / Participants / Present / Absent

Voting Members

/

Corresponding Members

George Kusterer, Chairman / X / Fredric Goldner / X
Frank Stanonik, Secretary (CM) / X / Robert Hamos / X
James Earley / X / William Healy / X
Wilbur Haag, Jr. / X / Harold Heiss / X
Carl Hiller, Vice Chairman / X / Daryl Hosler / X
Jim Lutz / X / Jeffrey Jensen / X
Frank Myers / X / Russell Johnson / X
Cyrus Nasseri / X / Shawn Knapp / X
Earl Rightmier / X / Eric Lannes / X
Harvey Sachs / X / Alexander Lekov / X
Alan Shedd / X / Alan Lloyd / X
Bodh Subherwal / X / Mary Lobenstein / X
Wayne Webster / X / Colin McGugan / X
David Yuill / X / Tim Merrigan / X
Lance DeLaura / X

International Members

/ Mark Paquette / X
Dieter Goettling / X / Maier Perlman / X
Richard Peters / X

Guests

/ John Richardson / X
Peter Biermayer / X / Donald Sampler / X
Don Fisher / X / Rex Scare / X
Michael Garrabrant / X / Larry Spielvogel / X
Greg Hayden / X / Leo Stambaugh / X
Douglas Kosar / X / Kevin Stuart / X
Wilfred Laman / X / Marvin Thedford, Jr. / X
Neil Leslie / X / Terry Townsend / X
Larry Markel / X
Terry Mullen / X
Sun Oung / X
Martin Thomas / X
Haigo Tikiryan / X
Cory Weiss / X
Corresponding Members
Ashley Armstrong / X
Fredrick Campagna / X
J. Richard Clary, Jr. / X
Donald Cleland / X
William S. Dols / X
Peter Donohue / X

The meeting was called to order at 4:22 p.m. It was determined that a quorum was present. The current TC roster was reviewed.

Chairman Kusterer reported that Secretary- Frank Stanonik would not be attending the meeting due to a family member recovering from surgery. The chairman recognized corresponding member- Mike Garrabrandt for receiving an ASHRAE award for streamlining a water heating test procedure. Mr. Kusterer announced that corresponding member- Ashley Armstrong would not be attending the meeting due to family matters. The chairman also noted the passing of committee member Michael Martin. He noted that Mr. Martin was a great personal mentor and contributor to ASHRAE. It was noted that further remarks about Mr. Martin would continue at the conclusion of the meeting.

Mr. Kusterer noted that Larry Markel joined T.C. 6.6 as a corresponding member.

The minutes of the June 23, 2008 meeting in Salt Lake City, Utah were approved. Vote: 7 approve, 1 abstention, minutes approved

Chairman Kusterer reported on TC Chairman’s Breakfast. George Kusterer and Carl Hiller attended. 6.6 Roster must be in TAC section head by 1/27. All members encouraged to update their biographical information. The chairman noted that people are rolling off of the committee and they need to be replaced. Mr. Kusterer noted to the visitors and corresponding members that the TC is actively seeking new voting committee members. Mr. Hiller noted the need for more active participation in committee meetings and the need for interested parties to attend Forums and other related meetings. Voting committee member encourage the audience to become corresponding members and ultimately become eligible as a voting member candidates after a year of as corresponding members. Mr. Kusterer invited interested parties to see him at the conclusion of the committee meeting to formally express interest in becoming voting member.

Larry Markel commented that a RAC Committee member will work with Research Committee Chairman, Lance DeLaura on final needed amendments to the Work Statement. Mr. Kusterer announced that He and Mr. DeLaura attended the TC Chair’s breakfast. It was also noted that the TC chairman would be asked to name a technical contact (Lance DeLaura) to review work statement before it goes out. Potential bidders will ask the technical contact questions prior to submitting their bids.

Subcommittee chairs:

Lance DeLaura reported that there was a version control issue with the RAC that has affected review of Work Statement Document. Lance will work with the RAC liaison -Jaap to determine needed modifications. Lance will provide the TC with a summary of the modifications and then the Work Statement will be submitted to the RAC in time to meet the Feb 27, 2009 deadline so that bids on the project can begin in the Spring of ‘09.

Harvey Sachs and Jim Lutz reported that their Forum went well. There were approximately 40 attendees. Consensus from attendees was that the current test procedure needs to be revised. There was good engagement from the Forum attendees. Mr. Sachs suggested that the TC conduct a solar water heating forum at the Winter Meeting in Orlando. This would be especially valuable since Florida is conducive to solar use. A suggestion was made to coordinate with TC 6.7 in Orlando for the seminar on solar water heating.

Guest- Wilford Lamond may wish to be a speaker at a TC seminar in Orlando.

(SUBSITTUTE FOR WAYNE)??? reported on the Program Subcommittee’s activities. He suggests resubmitting previously rejected Benchmarking Residential Water Heater Use and Programs to Improve Efficiency as additional research activities. Motion to resubmit what was previously rejected. Unanimously approved.

Suggested focus for the Louisville meetings is Optimal Air Quality Management.

Frank Meyers- enhance standards method of test standards. Standards Committee- proposal to change threshold requirements for the Society. Currently 50% +1. Proposal now 2/3rds of committee needs to approve with no more than 20% dissenting votes. Same requirements as ISO. Not approved yet- a tabled motion at this point. Contact Society for feedback as next steps. Harvey Sachs expressed concern about power of small special interest groups that could have their voting powers increased with this change. Frank Meyers also reported preparations for 90.1 to adopt major changes that impact TC 6.6. Mr. Meyers will provide the TC chairman with this information.

It was noted that 189.1 had reformed and that both 189.1 and 118.1 had been given additional time from ASHRAE to get members in place.

It was agreed by the TC that meeting minutes would be added to the ASHRAE web site and would include the Research URL.

Carl Hiller reported the Handbook Committee had meeting today. Assignments were made for specific revision assignments. Mr. Hiller will provide a list of assignments from Carl Hiller. TC members were asked to let Carl know as soon as possible of any other handbook changes. .

Jim Earley from the Membership Committee recognized the passing Michael Martin and the vacancy created on the TC. He reported that the web site is up to date with minutes and is current with all items. He asked that any suggestions for improvements be sent directly to him. Frank Meyers suggested that we ask for questions or suggestions on improving the web site content. Franks also suggested that the TC vote on member questions, comments.

Fred Goldner- no updates.

Old Business- #7 on agenda. Earl Rightmeir chairing 118.1 for commercial water heater. Looking for new members. First meeting in Louisville. TAC has not changed name of committee from Service Water Heating yet.

New Business- Next meeting Louisville, KY. Testing and rating of commercial pool heaters. Frank Meyers proposes that we reaffirm standards. Suggestion was made to compare the Canadian Standards for consistency. Harvey Sachs expressed concern about review procedures that adversely affect heat pump water heaters. The TC should review the opportunity to create standards for heat pump water headers and condensing gas water heaters. A motion was made by Frank Meyers to update the references? and approve the standard, Jim Lutz seconds motion. Larry Spielvogel suggested routing a copy of the #146 from Mark Weber to the TC 6.6 committee for suggesting to revise the standard. The standard will be routed to former members of the committee too. Frank will contact Mark Weber for a copy of the standards. 2011 is the timeline to provide comments. This will be added to the Louisville agenda.

Jim Lutz made a suggestion to explore bringing Non ASHRAE and utility company funding to research projects. He also informed the TC that the 2nd annual Water Heating Forum in June 2009 at Asilomar facility in Monterey. Contact Harvey Sachs and Jim for more details.

Carl Hiller noted ongoing research. CEC funding for his pipe research project. Don Fisher doing work on water use in commercial kitchens. Martin Thomas Is doing field studies in residential water use patterns. PIER funding field testing of multi-family water use. Davis Energy Group has distribution systems. Minnesota Center for Energy and Environment- tank vs tank-less water heaters field study.

It was also noted that DOE Building America Program may be potential source of research funding for the TC. DOE water heating rulemaking update- Feb 9. Pre meeting comments are due to DOE before February 9. March 16 is the date that comments are due on DOE water heating test procedures.

The Energy Star Water Heater Program began in mid January.

Just prior to the conclusion of the Committee meeting, Chairman Kusterer asked for a moment of silence in honor of R. Michael Martin.

Adjourn.

The chairman met with interested committee member candidates.