MINUTES of ASHRAE TC 6.6

SERVICE WATER HEATING SYSTEMS

AMERICAN SOCIETY OF HEATING, REFRIGERATING ANDAIR-CONDITIONING ENGINEERS, INC.

1791 Tullie Circle, N.E./Atlanta, GA 30329

404-636-8400

TC/TG/TRG No: TC 6.6 TITLE: Service Water Heating Systems DATE: June 30, 2014 LOCATION: Seattle WA

Participants / Present / Absent / Participants / Present / Absent

Voting Members

/ Corresponding Members
Frank Stanonik – Chair / X / John Richardson / X
Jim Lutz - Vice Chair / X / Kristin Schaefer / X
Troy Trant – Secretary / X / David Seitz / X
Charles Adams / X / Craig Selover / X
Amin Delagah – Handbook / X / Alan Shed / X
Paul Hikspoors / X / Roy Smith / X
Carl Hiller / X / Dan Snyder / X
George Kusterer / X / Paul Sohler / X
Harvey Sachs / X / Larry Spielvogel / X
Ben Schoenbauer-Program / X / David Springer / X
Earl Rightmier -118.1 Chair / X / Mike Steinhafel / X
Martin Thomas -124 Chair / X / Bodh Subherwal / X
James Earley / X / Richard Topping / X
Frank Myers – Stds. Chair / X / Greg Towsley / X
Alan Trehan / X
Corresponding Members / Wayne Webster / X
Kevin Stuart-Webmaster / X / Cory Weiss / X
Ashley Armstrong / X / James York / X
Adam Darlington / X / Yanda Zhang / X
Robert Davis / X
Titu Doctor / X / International Members
Mehdi Doura / X
Don Fisher / X
Michael Garrabrant / X / Guests
Paul Glanville / X / Tim Keane / X
Fredric Goldner / X / Dennis Multistack / X
Jason Hall / X / Jeff Maguire / X
William Healy / X / Aaron Stoko / X
Charles High / X / Tania Ullah / X
Russell Johnson / X / Aykut Yimaz / X
Shamel Kassab / X / Cedric Trueman / X
Gary Klein / X
Douglas Kosar / X
Alexander Lekov / X
Neil Leslie / X
Larry Markel / X
Colin McGugan / X
Tim Merrigan / X
Cyrus Nasseri / X
Thomas Neill / X
Marc Neufcourt / X
Wayne Reedy / X
Mark Rehley / X
ASHRAE Liaisons
TAC Chair / X
John Dunlap-Sect. 6 Head / X
Steve Hancock ,Res.Lia. / X
-Std. Liaison / X
Sheldon Geitter, Hdbk Lia. / X

Minutes

TC-6.6 SERVICE WATER HEATING SYSTEMS

Monday June 30, 2014, 4:15 – 6:30 PM,

Frank Stanonik, Chair, James Lutz– Vice Chair, T. Trant- Secretary

1) Call to Order

-Self introductionsand determination of quorum. 11 of 14 voting members present.

2) Membership/Roster review

  • All voting members’terms are current with the exception of Frank Stanonik-Chair whose term concludes July 1. For the next meeting of the TC6.6, Jim Lutz to become new Chair. Martin Thomas and Earl Rightmier will no longer be attending the TC6.6 committee meetings.
  • Participants interested in becoming new members will need to contact Jim Lutz. Frank Stanonik, Martin Thomas, and Earl Rightmier to become Corresponding Members. Paul Glanville expressed interest in becoming a Voting Member.
  • Research Subcommittee Chair volunteers are being sought for leadership; please contact Jim Lutz.

3) Discussion of Minutes of June 24, 2013 and January 20, 2014 Meetings

  • Motion made by Frank Myers, 2nd Jim Lutz to adopt minutes as distributed. (passed - unanimous)
  • A copy of the January 20, 2014 New York minutes were distributed for review. Attendees were asked to send comments to Jim Lutz. A committee vote will be taken next time.

4) Report on TC Chairman’s Breakfast

  • A young engineer’s workshop is being discussed to help stimulate new technology type programs. No specific items were covered affecting TC6.6 interests. ASHRAE is asking that specific research projects, sponsored by committees, be tied to the pathway of the ASHRAE Strategic Plan (copies are available). ASHRAE also discussed potential mechanics for reaching meeting quorum levels via conference calls and methods other than face-to-face meetings.

5) TAC Section Head Report – no report

6) Committee liaison reports – no report

7) Subcommittee Reports

a)Programs - Ben Schoenbauer

  • In general there is an increased scrutiny of programs seeking to be offered at ASHRAE conferences; nearly 50% of submittals are being rejected for ASHRAE conferences. Emphasis is being placed on presenting those works which have been through a peer review process.

Winter Meeting January 2015 (Chicago); 4 full conference papers are planned. A workshop is planned around standards/metrics framed around hot water distribution systems. J. Lutz and others (interested) should come forward. It was suggested that TC 6.6 revisit topics of energy use in buildings associated with water heating and a review of the new DOE test procedure influences.

Summer Meeting 2015 (Atlanta) full conference papers are due September 22 2014. C.Hiller and R. Johnson anticipate a paper covering hot water use in hotel installations. J.Lutz anticipates having a paper on residential hot water usage.

b) Standards – Frank Myers

  • SPC 118.2 – Jim Lutz – DOE issued a final rule on the residential and light commercial water heaters on June 27, 2014. This issuance will be among topics at the committee meeting. Some concerns exist on potentially ASHRAE ‘loosing’ the standard back to ANSI.
  • SPC 90.1 – Frank Stanonik – Efforts continue towards developing a 2016 standard. A few addenda have been voted out not related to water heating. 90.1 requires for Service Hot Water, piping insulation on certain pipes in particular for recirculating systems. Considerable discussions were had on insulating the hot water piping system vs insulating all the piping systems. Insulation of the loop, supply, and some portion on discharge piping. L. Speivogel advised that if wanting to address the concern in the 2018 IPC, comments for a standards changes need to be made by January 2015, ahead of the next TC6.6.

The 90.1 committee will circulate new language to help clearly delineate the requirements for recirculation insulations and scope of insulation requirements. The CEC has added recirculation loop pipe insulation criteria in its 2015 release. A recommendation was made to inquire with Gary Klein for the UPC and IPC code language relative to 90.1

  • SPC 90.2 – Bill Healy – no report. Appears to be focused on different areas that 90.1. A high performance building standard is likely to be developed.
  • SPC 124 – G. Kusterer – temporary chair. Quorum made in January. The meeting time and location was corrected to Wednesday July 8 – Eagle Board Room.
  • SPC 188 – Frank Myers – Meetings have continued on legionnaire’s management. In March 2014, ASHRAE formed a small working group to pull together ideas into a code enforceable language and simple language for building managers for application. Emphasis is being placed on methods-of-practice with references to specific technical information. Excellent progress was being made towards a potential vote for Public Review during the Summer 2014 meeting. After publication, the committee will move to a continuous maintenance standards process.
  • SPC 191 – Jim Lutz– a committee related to water conservation in buildings. A public review is still in process. The effort is close to responding to commenters with responses; followed by another public review.
  • SPC 206 - Frank Myers – closed out. A new addendum had already been approved.
  • Guideline 12 – Frank Myers – updating Guideline 12 has been put on hold until SPC188 is finalized.
  • Standard 146 – Rating Method for Pool Heaters – As part of the 5-year review process F. Myers made a motion to reaffirm with edits as recommended by staff, J. Lutz 2nd the motion (passed - unanimous).
  • Remote Committee Participation – ASHRAE is experimenting with committee participation via remote methods.

c) Handbook– Amin Delagah – a vote was taken to send out the Handbook update for review by the TC6.6. By July 3, the TC6.6 will be sent the clean draft of the handbook. A 2-week review deadline will be allowed followed by a TC 6.6 ballot will be sent. A conference call the week of July 21 was planned to resolve any issues. The goal is to send out to ASHRAE before the July 31 deadline a handbook update approved for publication.

d) Research – a Research Subcommittee Chairperson is needed. J. Lutz commented on a work statement submitted for office building water usage. A follow-up on comments will be held off until completion has been attained for project RP 1544. A project monitoring subcommittee (PMS) will need to be updated; Paul Glanville volunteered to assist the current PMS group of J. Lutz and G. Kusterer.

e) Membership – Jim Earley – Frank Stanonik rolling off.

f) Website – Kevin Stuart – no report. The website remains dormant.

8)Status of SPC 118.1 – Discussion was held concerning the need for a chairperson and committee membership. The Chair consulted with ASHRAE and recommends that we restart the effort around title, purpose and scope along with addressing the need for more members. Motion made by F. Stanonik, 2ndH. Sachs naming D. Burning as committee chair for SPC 118.1 (passed - unanimous)

The newly elected chair will initiate a call for participants. The newly formed SPC 118.1 will update the scope of coverage and address temperature conditions for testing HPWHs.

G. Kusterer commented that DOE was represented at the informal SPC 118.1 meeting where they shared plans for a new test procedure rule within 2-years; therefore SPC 118.1 has ~1-1.5 years to complete a new procedure for possible adoption by DOE.

9)Old Business – Hot Water Forum (February 2015 – Nashville TN); H. Sachs noted that ACEEE is looking for sponsors and help in defining specific topics (standards, new technology, new product showcase) of interest to participants.

10)New Business– RP1544, concerning hot water use in hotels, will be completed soon. A summary report will be generated yet several sublevel papers could be generated pending general interest.

11)Next meeting – Chicago January 2015

12)Adjournment – 6:15pm