DIRECTORATE-GENERAL
ENVIRONMENT
Directorate D - Water, Marine Environment & Chemicals
ENV.D.1 - Protection of Water Resources
Brussels, 2123.1101.20122013
12th MEETING GROUP F ON FLOODSTUESDAY 16 - WEDNESDAY 17 OCTOBER 2012
WG F MEETING DAY 1: 14:00 – 17:00
WG F MEETING DAY 2: 09:00 – 15:00
VENUE: CENTRE CONFERENCE ALBERT BORSCHETTE, ROOM 0B
RUE FROISSART 36, 1040 BRUSSELS
[Modification based on comments from DE and SE.]
Revised Draft Minutes as of 19 OCTOBER 2012. Documents and presentations are available on CIRCABCA.
1 – Welcome and Introduction
Mr Mark Adamson (MA) (WG F Chair) welcomed the participants (listed in the annex II)to the 12th Meeting of Working Group F on Floods. MA apologised for the late delivery of some of the documents, due in part to the resource demands on MA as the sole Chair.
2 – Approval of the agenda
(Doc: WGF12-1-ENV-agenda-v4.doc)
Version four of the agenda was circulated by e-mail on 12 October 2012. MA informed that agenda item 11c) moves under agenda item 5c) and agenda item 13 a) moves under agenda item 7b). Agenda item 12c) is deleted. The agenda was approved without any other amendments.
3 – Approval of the minutes of the last meeting
(Doc WGF12-2-ENV- draft final minutes WG F 11)
MA thanked RO for hosting WG F Meeting No. 11. The minutes of WG F 11 (version 1) were circulated in April 2011. Comments were received from two Member States (NL and EWA), which were taken into account in version 2 issued on 9th October. With this change, the minutes of WG F 11 were approved as final.
4 – Next steps on implementation
a)Transposition
Ms Maria Brättemark (MB) (COM; DG ENV D1) gave a presentation on the 'Update on the implementation of the Floods Directive':
All MS have communicated the transposed acts and non-communication cases closed. The conformity studies have been completed for all MS. Pilot letters/pre-art 258 letters were sent to 16 MS, i.e., BE, BG, CY, DE, EE, ES, HU, IT, LT, LU, LV, MT, NL, PL, SE, SK and may be sent to CZ, FI, FR and UK. In March 2012, letters of formal notice were sent to DE, HU, IT and LV and in September 2012 to EE. The case is closed on HU. There are no further infringement proceedings are currently foreseen for AT, DK, EL, ES, HU, IE, LT, MT, NL, PT, RO and SI.
b)Competent Authorities and RBD/Unit of Management – Visualisation in WISE
The Floods Directive Viewer in WISE contains CA information per UoM/RBD. The COM received updated reports; therefore the WISE viewer should be updated as well.
Follow up and next steps:The COM requested the MS to formally report any changes in CAs or UoMs have taken place within 3 months of the change as required by the Directive.
c)Reporting of Preliminary Flood Risk Assessment
At the moment there are 187[1] PFRA's submitted relating to application of Art. 4. Altogether, there are 161[2] reports submitted by the MS relating to APSFR through application of Art. 5 .
For DE1000, DE2000, DE4000, DE5000, DE6000, ES020, ES070, ES080, LU2000 the MS are taking transitional measures under Art. 13.1a). For BE, DE4000, DE5000, DE6000, NL, UK02 (engl. Part), UK03, UK04, UK05,UK06, UK07, UK08, UK09, UK10, UK11 and UK1 the MS are taking transitional measures under Art. 13.1b).
According to Art. 10, the PFRA should be publicly available. So far there are only 48 reports available and only AT and IE submitted a full report.
Pre-infringement procedures can be started, if necessary, even on non-reporting. The Compliance checking is going to start in early 2013 with a qualitative assessment.
The preliminary feedback by MB stated that not all MS have reported webpages and that some webpages found by search, but not all MS made the PFRA publicly available. The compliance check will be done on the electronic reports as well as full reports and other background documents if reported. MB reminded MS to submit full reports as well as links thereto, in addition to the electronic reporting.
The COM informed, that currently Atkins is working on the visualisation of the past floods.
Follow-up and next steps:c) Reporting of Preliminary Flood Risk Assessment
The COM requested the MS to provide a full report of the Preliminary FloodRisk Assessment (Articles 4 , 5 and 13.1.a) for the compliance checking.
Regarding the public availability, MS were asked to provide the link or information, where information on the preliminary flood risk assessment it can be found on the respective webpages or when/how it will be otherwise publicly available. Even for the missing RBD shall MS provide information.
5 – Floods Directive reporting
a)Next steps Flood Hazard and Risk Map reporting (schemas, tools, guidance, testing)
MB informed that they have got restricted resources this year and that they were mainly dealing with WFD and suggested a reporting drafting group meeting by the end of November 2012 and that the date should be fixed under the members. At the moment there has not been any progress with 'GIS Guidance Maps and Plans' so far, but the COM will finish it as soon as possible.
FR noted that the delivery of the Schema was now late, and stated that delivery as soon as possible was important to allow MS to develop flood maps by the deadline of the Directive.
Questions by NL were raised concerning the changes between INSPIRE and WISE, but INSPIRE will not change what is reported, just the format. MS underlined the requirement for this GIS-document.
b)Preparation of Floods Directive Reporting Guidance document
MB noted the absence of Edith Hödl-Kreuzbauer due to injury. WG F thanked EHK for her time and input to previous WG F meetings.
MB informed that the Guidance document on Reporting for the Floods Directive is still in production, but has been delayed due to the Blueprint work.; MB underlined that is just a reshaping of already agreed documents and that the document should be approved as soon as possible.
c)Next steps Flood Risk Management Plans reporting (schemas)
MB informed WG F that the COM, with Atkins, are proceeding with the development of the schemas. MB then noted that COM is in the process of reviewing the reporting sheets and schemas for the RBMP, and noted that some alignment of the FRMP reporting with that for the RBMP may streamline reporting. WG D would be considering this when it next meetings (March 2013).. MB advised to have a look of the WFD reporting sheets and suggested to postpone the topic until the WG D meet. SE, DE and NL expressed serious concerns about any the delay in finalising the schemas for the mapping and plans, and suggested requested to also proceed rapidly with the flood risk management plans schemas. The by the COM proposed development of reporting tools for the FRMPs that can ensure either integrated reporting, or separate by coordinated.an “integrated reporting sheet” to be already applied for reporting in 2015/2016 has been seen as crucial by those MS.SE and others also proposed to first finalise Floods Directive tools(schemas) and then engage in dialogue with WGD.
Due to the fact that some MS would like to do just one report, MB emphasised that not the content is going to change, but only the structure. MB advised to have a look at the WFD reporting sheets and suggested to postpone the topic until the WG D meeting.
MB suggested that WG F might wish to have a bigger presence at the WG D meetings and mentioned the problem regarding the timeline (ready by the end of 2013) on the WG D's agenda. MA suggested that the matter should be considered in detail at the next FD Reporting Drafting Group meeting (likely to be held end of Nov 2012).
d)European Flood Impact Database; Update on progress and discussion on way forward
This information about the European flood impact database was given by Wouter Vanneuville, EEA) WV. For the year 2013 EEA will we are going tomake use the same implementationof dtata reported on the PFRA, sheets. We areand develop a going to pilot some thingstest to and statefurther explore what the additional value isof the exercise.
e)INSPIRE progress presentation (Meike Gierk(MG) on behalf of Manuela Pfeiffer, (MP) (DE))
MG gave a presentation on behalf of MP on the INSPIRE progress including information on the scope of 'status of implementation', 'final implementing rules' and 'status-quo data specification NZ'. MG informed that there are changes in the annexes I, but that they could find them in the preamble.
Hugo de Groof (DG ENV F) underlined that INSPIRE strengthens the collaborating and that the data types not only linked to the flood and water framework directives. Currently DG ENV F together with JRC are developing software to streamline all the information. Hugo de Groof raised the question of how the MS experience the cross-border work. The transboundary work is essential and MS like CZ, NL, HU, DE make use of bilateral or multilateral way. MB underlined that it is not the case for smaller transboundary rivers.
Before MG gave her presentation, she mentioned that it would is not possible for MP to come to the WG F meetings just to give the presentation related to the INSPIRE topic.. Therefore, MA proposed to have a written update on INSPIRE from MP. All MS agreed on that and MA suggested to askasking MP if she could instead submit a short written report, when necessary (MG subsequently confirmed that MP would be happy to provide such a report).
Further links provided:
Follow-up and next steps:INSPIRE developments to be considered by the Floods Directive Reporting Drafting group.
6 – WG F thematic workshops & information exchange
a)Floods and economics, Ghent, BE, 25-26.10.2010
- Finalisation of the Resource document on Floods & Economics
(Doc: WGF12-3-BE-Resource document flood related economics_draftv4- 2012)
This document was tabled on the last WG F meeting when MS were requested to submit any final comments. MA stated that he had not received any comments on that document. A slightly revised version was then issued at the end of the week preceding the meeting, with the revisions marked as tracked changes. MA invited comments from the floor. None were raised, so that the report was signed off as the final draft. MA thanked Belgium for their work on that document.
b)Stakeholder involvement in flood risk management, April 2012, Bucharest (RO)
- Receipt of draft report
(Doc: WGF12-4-RO-Stakeholder involvement workshop report-Bucharest-final)
MA thanked Mary-Jeanne Adler (MJA) (RO) for her work on the 'Stakeholder Involvement Workshop Report' and informed that it was made available on CIRCABC two weeks ago. Afterwards, Mary-Jeanne Adler presented the document to the MS.
MA queried if the printed version, which MJA handed out before her presentation, is the same version like on CIRCABC. MJA admitted that she did not know exactly. MB stated that the latest version should be available on CIRCABC by Thursday (18 October).
MA opened to the floor for any comments on the Report. None were raised so MA requested the MS to submit their comments by the 9 November to MA, MJA and MB. MA stated the timeline to have this document finalised. A revised version should be available by end of this year 2012 and re-draft should be ready by the end of February 2013. Than MS have the possibility on further comments by end of March 2013 and a final version should be available in April 2013. All MS agreed on that schedule.
c)Discussion on follow-up of past workshops
Doc: WGF12-5-Thematic Workshops Consolidated Outcome-v4-0 - Closed Issues
Doc: WGF12-6-Thematic Workshops Consolidated Outcome-v4-0 - Open Issues
Doc: WGF12-7-Thematic Workshops Consolidated Outcome-v4-0 - Research Issues)
MA informed that a quite number of open issues existed relating to the Economics Resource Document (e.g. on pages 6, 7, 8, 12 of the Open Issues document), and suggested moving these now to the closed section. NL requested additional time to review the economics-related open questions, and MA agreed that MS should submit any comments on these open questions, i.e., whether they should remain open, by the 9th November.
MA suggested that the open questions relating to stakeholder engagement should be left open and in-hand, pending review of the Stakeholder Engagement Workshop Report. MA requested that the MS should have a specific look at these open questions when reviewing the Report to ensure that they have been appropriately addressed in the report, and if so, then they may be moved into the closed section in April.
MA noted that COM would look into re-structuring the consolidated outcomes document, which should be circulated as a proposal when it is ready.
d)Review of exchange event on Climate Change at WG F 12
MA handed over to Barbro Näslund-Landenmark (BNL) (SE) to give an overview of the workshop on climate change on the 16 October 2012. BNL pointed out that the workshop served as an information exchange as well as getting new input. The outcome will be an informal report with minutes and the summary of the questionnaire. BNL emphasised that MS can submit completed questionnaires and input to the table of guiding principles and suggested actions by the 9 November 2012. Furthermore, BNL suggested the topic 'uncertainties' for another workshop.
MA summarised the workshops outcome, noting that there were different views on some items, such as how to provide for flood mapping and uncertainty in flood maps. MA also noted that an issue many MS were considering was how to make decisions on investment in flood risk management measures under uncertainty.
MA apologised for anybody, who did not received the questionnaire, stating that it was available on CIRCA. MA also noted that it was intended to include the input by MS through the questionnaire or table in the report of the event, and that any MS that did not want their input to be included should inform MA, MB and BNL of this by 9th November.
e)Transboundary cooperation and coordination on Foods Directive implementation
MA noted that there were no specific issues from the Chair or COM on this item, but invited any input from the floor.
MA noted that the Flood WISE Conference, which considers flood risk management in border regions, was to be held in Maastricht on the 22 and 23 November 2012.
NL informed the meeting that the AMICE project would be holding it’s final conference in March 2013.
ICPDR informed the meeting that a workshop on mapping was held at the end of September (
The COM informed that the WFD implementation report, due end November, will include an analysis of Transboundary cooperation, and will be supported by a Study on Governance, in which the Transboundary cooperation has been analysed in most Transboundary catchments. In most catchments where cooperation is established, it also covers flood risk management to carrying degrees. Thes Factsheets produced can be the basis for further discussion in WGF.
Follow-up and next steps:a) Final comments on the Economics Resource document by 9.11.2012
b) Comments on the draft Staekeholder workshop report by 9.11.2012.
d) Additional replies to the survey on Climate change in FD implementation to be submitted by 9.11.2012.
7 – Information exchange on Floods Directive Implementation
a)Flood Risk Management Plans in Scotland – Setting Objectives and Appraisal of Measures – UK, Scotland (Roy Richardson)
Roy Richardson gave a presentation on 'Flood Risk Management in Scotland: Setting Objectives and Selecting Measures'.
b)Cross-border cooperation between IE & Northern Ireland – UK, NI (David Porter)
The following presentation was given by David Porter on 'EU-Floods Directive – Transboundary Cooperation in Ireland'. No comments on that presentation.
c)European Federation of Geologists – Presentation (Isabel Fernandez)
Isabel Fernandez gave her presentation on 'European Federation of Geologists' and thereby giving an overview of the task of the institution. No comments on that presentation. Ms Fernandez noted that Dr. Calcatera would be the representative from EFG for future meetings.
8 – Links between Water Framework Directive & Floods Directive implementation
a)Progress report(M. Adamson / M. Brättemark)
(Doc: WGF12-8-FD-WFD-paper – Rev A – October 2012)
The WFD-FD FAQ Paper has been outlined as a Zero-draft at the 11th WG F meeting. Following comments from a number of MS, it was decided to review the structure of this document. The ‘Core Group’ then re-developed the document into its current form at the Core Group meeting on the 27th June 2012 and it was circulated couple weeks ago. MA informed that comments had been received by SL and FL, and that these comments would be followed up in the next version. The document is now available on CIRCABC. The outcome paper will be an informal paper.
MA opened to the floor for comment. DE noted that there were some issues related to the stated requirements for the WFD, and stated that the specific comments would be submitted in writing. DK queried the legal status of the document, and MA noted that the document would be informal (as a CIS document). UK noted that the current version was a good improvement on the zero draft, but had some comments that they would submit in writing. The UK also suggested that the frequent references to various FD and WFD articles could be made as footnotes, rather than interrupting the text. It was agreed that further consultation was required with WFD colleagues nationally, after which comments would be submitted in writing. MA outlined the further proceedings with the paper: Comments shall be submitted by the 16 November 2012, a revised version would be prepared by the Core Group by the end of 2012 for circulation to WG F, further comments on the revised draft should be submitted in writing by end February 2013, after which the Core Group would issue a further revision by the end of March 2013 for discussion at WG F 13.
MB (COM) suggested that the paper be raised at the SCG meeting in November. SE, supported by FR, NL, FI, DE and GR suggested that it was too soon, and that further consultation nationally and development of the paper should be undertaken before it was raised at the SCG. COM noted that a further meeting of the SCG would be held in February 2013. It was agreed that the WFD-paper should be flagged to the SCG in February meeting 2013.
b)Finalisation of "Links between the Water Framework Directive and Nature Directives and consultation the addition of a new complementary set of Frequently asked questions on Floods and Nature Directives” – Discussion (See also background document on CIRCABC)(M. Brättemark)
MB mentioned that at the last working group meeting a document on the links between WFD and Nature Directives was noted. MB has now received the document and will provide the link to CIRCABC. MA added that the comments on that document should be sent in by the 16 November 2012.
Follow-up and next steps:a) Comments on the current draft of the FD-WFD links resource document to be submitted b y 16.11.2012.
b) Commission to upload the three Floods specific draft questions on the Water and Biodiversity Frequently Asked Questions document, and comments invited by 9.11.2012.
9 – CIS Work Programme, 2012-15