Kent Health and Safety Group

Kent Health and Safety Group

6th November 2008

Present:

Doug BaguleyDBA Consultants

Doug CheneryKHSG

George PercivalK&G Fire Training

Paul DurkinKCC Adult Social Services

Gary HewittGraveshamBC

Bernard ClarkeSwale Heating

Dave TylerSafetywise

Mark CurryUPM Tilhill

Chris PikeUPM Tilhill

Alan WebbRisk Stop

John SnellKITA

John McNeilArcelormittal Kent Wire

Henry AustinTWBC

Ian WestSDC

Sheila CoupeShepwayDC

Stuart MarkeyRS&AS

Apologies:

Melvyn French, Gary Smith, Frank Pestell, Carole Shepherd, Eddie Adrian

General Business

Doug Chenery gave a financial update. Current membership stands at 52. This has brought in a subscription of £725. Income excess over expenditure £460.97. In Business Reserve Account £6,037, Community Step Saver Account £131.88. Total KHSG assets £6,168.95.

George Percival updated the group that the Kent Fire Liaison Panel are still considering their future.

Previous Minutes

These were agreed.

Correspondence

C Pike had received a reminder about the Alan Butler Awards and the need to enter. The usual range of magazines were available for members to take.

Help!

No members were in need of help.

Accidents and Learning Experiences

S Markey relayed a tale of a flat roofer that, when asked, had no idea about edge protection or work at height regulations.

Guest Speaker:

S Markey introduced the guest speaker, Mark Richards, Senior Fire Protection Manager, Kent Fire and Rescue Service.

Mark gave the following presentation:

Mark outlined his experience. He joined the Fire Service at 25. After a period he joined the Technical Fire Safety team and has worked on Fire Safety Enforcement for the past ten years.

Kent Fire & Rescue Service (KFRS) view one of their roles to promote fire safety. Presentations like this are a good way of achieving this.

The Fire Regulatory Reform Order consolidated over 100other regulations. The structure is almost identical to the European Directive. Mark recommended that people read the regulations not just the guidance to get a better understanding of the requirements. In general articles 8 – 22 are the main ones to comply with.

The Responsible Person would normally be the employer, but the person with fire responsibility could be culpable. Prosecution would depend upon their authority level. Where the building is multi occupancy the communal parts fall to the owner or free holder. The Free holder, lease holder and occupants must coordinate controls.

The Health and Safety (Management) Regulations, Reg 3 places a duty on employers to Risk Assess. This covers fire, so Fire Risk Assessment is not new.

Mark then gave several examples of how complex determining who the responsible person is.

The duty on the responsible person is on the familiar basis of “So far as is reasonably practicable”. All other relevant persons must do what would be considered reasonable. A relevant person is any person in the immediate vicinity of the premises and is at risk from a fire on the premises. This does not include a fire fighter who is carrying out his duties in relation to a function of a Fire and Rescue Authority.

“Where necessary” is an important definition and applies to many parts of the RRO.

Risk Assessment

Under the RRO the risk assessment requirements differ to the usual risk assessment process and requirements. Dangerous Substances must be included and treated as set out in Part 1 of Schedule 1. There is a requirement to record prescribed information where there are:

1, 5 or more employees,

2, Licensed premises,

3, Alteration notice in place.

Prescribed information is:

i, Significant findings, including the control measures which have been or will be taken by the responsible person.

ii, Any person or groups of persons identified by the assessment as being especially at risk

Principles of Prevention

Where the responsible person implements any preventative and protective measures, he must do so on the basis of the principles specified in Part 3 of Schedule 1.

1,Risk assessment must be reviewed regularly, if there is a significant change or it is suspected it is no longer valid

2, Can be critical if a fire prevention or control measure is removed or is not functional

3, Need to account for young persons in Risk Assessment

PAS79 is a standard document available for carrying out fire risk assessments. The DCLG Guide sets out minimum standards and will be the document that Kent Fire & Rescue Service will measure business against. The guides are available through the KFRS website.

Five Steps to risk assessment fits fire risk assessment

Identify hazards: Sources of Ignition, Fuel, Oxygen.

Fire Risk Assessment should consider, Arson, Security, Smoking and Electrical Fires

The group then posed many questions to Mark.

Historic Buildings can cause great difficulties in putting sufficient arrangements in. Security can also conflict with escape arrangements.

Who can do a fire risk assessment? They have to be competent to do Fire Risk Assessment. Fire Authority unlikely to prosecute the risk assessor if a negligent risk assessment leads to a fire. Fire Authority more likely to prosecute responsible person.

Mark pointed members towards for a compliance test. This is not a risk assessment.

What % of staff should have extinguisher training? Ensure always enough trained persons at all material times.

Mark gave his email address and invited members to contact him if they had any further questions.

Doug Baguley gave a vote of thanks.

Any Other Business

D Chenery requested any outstanding subs.

S Markey asked all members to bring any new members along.

D Baguley reminded members of the next IOSH South East meeting on Tuesday 11th November. The topic is a live demonstration on use of online CPD. University of Greenwich, 18:00 for 18:30