archived as http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Barnes_3.doc [pdf]
read more of the Philadelphia Experiment at http://www.stealthskater.com/PX.htm
note: because important websites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was archived from http://users.cihost.com/ata/chat99.htm on January 21, 2002. This is NOT an attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned website. Indeed, the reader should only read this back-up copy if it cannot be found at the original author's site.
Philadelphia Experiment chat archive #3 (of 3)
October 19, 1999
On Tuesday October 19, 1999, we welcomed researcher Marshall Barnes back for another chat about the Philadelphia Experiment and his other investigations. This chat focuses on the implications of the PX and what might be possible using the physics of the PX.
This is the third PX chat. We have the first and second chats also archived. If you are new to the Philadelphia Experiment, check out our intro article.
Besides writing and producing videos on the PX, Marshall Barnes has been a guest on the Art Bell Show, the Laura Lee Show, A&E's Unexplained and the X-Zone radio show.
This transcript has been edited so that questions match up with responses. Non PX comments have been omitted.
Marshall Barnes: Hi folks! Sorry I'm late!
123fish: Tough time getting on?
Marshall Barnes: Yeah. How about you all?
dwcooper: No problem
Marshall Barnes: DW --is that really you?
dwcooper: Yes
Marshall Barnes: Cool
RAGman: Finally happy to meet you, MB.
dwcooper: Heard you on Art Bell
Marshall Barnes: Thanks. I really appreciate it. OK, what does everybody want to know? Tonight I'm spilling the beans.
dwcooper: Incunabula
Marshall Barnes: That's a good place to start. The Incunabula is a catalog of books that you need to read to understand transdimensional travel. I first encountered it in 1991. I was intrigued by its similarity with events that were already happening in my life.
123fish : Is it connected to the PX?
Marshall Barnes: The Incunabula is connected theoretically to the PX via the teleportation aspect of the PX legend.
RAGman: Why did you disrespect that poor old naval historian?
Marshall Barnes: I disrespected the "poor old" naval historian because he was knowingly misleading the American people. I proved that when I did the sting op against him. Hey, this is info war and he knows it. That's just they way it goes.
RAGman: Where does Allen fit in?
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, do you mean Carl Allen? If so, he's not a good witness at all and I don't believe that he saw the PX. I do believe that he talked to Dr. 'Rinehart' by chance at a lecture somewhere because he had heard about the PX during the War. I've talked to other sailors that said they heard about it in 1943 and 1944, so Allende (or Allen) is NOT the source of the PX story.
RAGman: I believe the historian was being truthful.
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, I proved the historian was a liar. Read
http://www.viewzone.com/philadelphia.html again. He was even lying about not ever hearing about Area-51 for crying out loud!
RAGman: There is NO conspiracy!
dwcooper: yeah, sure !!!
Marshall Barnes: As far as there being no conspiracy, I've proven that already as well.
RAGman: What about the DE-173 reunion?
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, I and my team contacted the so-called "crew" of the PX. First of all, that was the official crew that had the reunion. If you would read any of the books on the PX, all of them say that the crew involved was not the "official" crew but one specially selected for that mission. Dr. 'Rinehart' -- who was the scientist that worked on part of it -- even identified that some of them were part of the Murmansk Run from England-to-Russia via the North Sea. That route took them through areas heavily guarded by Nazi surface ships with radar. What better reason to get those men to volunteer for the PX than to say if this works, it will protect you guys from the radar armed ships.
RAGman: Do you believe that the DE-173 was rendered invisible, teleported, and traveled thru time?
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, I know that the technology to make the ship invisible existed then. I know that there are now interesting scientifically based facts that support an interest in teleportation. I don't believe that the ship traveled in time.
ProfessorD: Marshall, I'd like to hear more from you about the Incunabula and how it led to your current research.
markhais: What about the Montauk Project?
Marshall Barnes: As far as the Incunabula goes...
RAGman: You don't believe that we can be allies after that "UNEXPLAINED" episode. But I was telling the truth as I had researched it!
Marshall Barnes: I think there is much merit to the concept of the Montauk Project. Here's a secret: there is a model of the Universe that Jacques Vallee called...
Marshall Barnes: This associative model would answer many of the questions that arise from quantum physics. What it says is that the Universe is made up as much of information as it is of matter and energy. And that consciousness is how we interact with the version of the Universe. According to Jacques Vallee in his book Messengers of Deception, such a model of the universe would allow for time-travel and many other things.
dwcooper: Valle's best book
Marshall Barnes: Yes, DW. It is Vallee's best book, and written before he went over to the "other side".
RAGman: If you're quoting Vallee,how about his... WAIT! Didn't you attack Vallee's credibility?
Marshall Barnes: Yes, RAGman. I not only attacked Vallee's credibility but also his very work. It was the work that he did with Anatomy of a Hoax which was a blatant fraud. But that DOESN'T MEAN that he was always one of the "bad guys" or that he isn't sorry for what he did. I used to be a big fan of Vallee in his early career, and I'll never take away from that. That doesn't mean I'm going let him slide on that crap that he wrote for the JSE.
ProfessorD: OK, so the Incunabula was a sort of "map", designed to help you figure out how they did things?
Marshall Barnes: On the Incunabula as a map, it is a guide, a carefully written "how to". Go to http://www.incunabula.org/ and read the description of the alleged book Alternate Realities by Nick Herbert. That description includes 80% of what you need to know.
123fish: How did you come to learn of the incunabula?
RAGman: Some of this sounds like an infomercial for dementia.
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, I proved the Anatomy was a fraud. It's as simple as that. That's why Vallee never came back at me on it.
RAGman: So then,anyone who disagrees with you is part of the "conspiracy?"
ProfessorD: Anyone who attempts to distort the reality of what might have happened with some weak ass evidence (if you could call it that) is part of the conspiracy in my book.
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, if you have any doubts go to http://www.ufomind.com/people/v/vallee. The whole account is listed there with the evidence.
RAGman: Attacking fellow researchers won't win the war!
ProfessorD: No way would Vallee have withstood a real peer review with anyone even remotely informed on the subject, RAGman. And that's the only REAL battle that you have to face in my opinion.
Marshall Barnes: The secret to the transdimensional travel thing lies in the intersection of fractal geometry and chaos math, quantum physics, the Eisntein/Rosen bridge, cybernetically enhanced bio-feedback, altered states of consciousness, Bell's Theorem, crystallography, morphogenetic field theory, and catastrophe topology for the most part.
dwcooper: Don't forget Schrodinger's poor cat
Marshall Barnes: Yeah, DW. But the cat is part of the whole quantum thing. The reason why all these subjects count is because they describe the way that the whole idea works.
dwcooper: But the cat's inter-reaction leads to the Everett-Wheeler "Many Worlds"thesis.
Marshall Barnes: The E/R bridge has to do with the throat of a wormhole. Now, here's where we go back to the PX. Allende told Robert Goerman -- who has now proven himself to be a liar and a fraud, BTW -- that the teleportation took place via something that Allende called the "Einstein bridge-tunnel propulsion method" ...
RAGman: Aww...I'm neither a liar nor a fraud. Just a researcher who wants the truth.
Marshall Barnes: RAGman, so you're Goerman! Well, I called you one because you are. You've lied about me at Shelton's website repeatedly because you're just a jealous excuse for a researcher. You've had plenty of time to figure this whole thing out and you never did. But because I've blown past you like your research never existed (and it might as well not have), you've claimed that I've bilked people out of $20 for buying my books and said I was no better than Drue (who I also proved is a fraud).
markhais: RAGman, are your Robert Goerman?
Marshall Barnes: What he was trying to say was that the ship's field created an E/R bridge and then did something known as "quantum tunneling". This is where a particle goes through a barrier of some sort and reappears on the other side without spending time in the barrier.
jshaffer: So, how do you make something as big as a ship tunnel?
ProfessorD: You have mentioned before that the ship acted as a giant electron...
Marshall Barnes: Yes, Professor D. The field actually would have acted as a giant electron. There is now a company that is going to use the same technology for space travel. That company is UNITEL, NW out of Oregon. And one of their representatives has confirmed that Allende's description of what allegedly happened with the PX is what they are planning to do. Their web site is http://www.unitelnw.com/. I strongly suggest that you all visit it and look on the pages they have under the titles of "propulsion" and "special skin" for the technical data that matches the description of the teleportation process alleged from the PX.
[StealthSkater note: see doc pdf URL ]
ProfessorD: I've gone to UNITEL's website and read their descriptions. I like their idea for a quantum computer.
Marshall Barne: ProfessorD, these guys stumbled on the same physics for their craft as what was used with the PX. They've confirmed it.
dwcooper: Isn't the Incunabula Egg the same as a "Merkabah"?
ProfessorD: I think that the invisibility is a side effect of the true purpose of the Unitel craft...
Marshall Barnes: I have no evidence that the Egg exists. I do know how to build one and I might be able to make it work. But it would take much experimentation. I mentioned crystallography earlier. That has to do with the physics of crystalline solids -- in other words, what you need to know build the craft.
DeNite: You cannot see an F-15 on the radars for example, so that is not so big deal to experiment with anymore.
Marshall Barnes: There is an interesting link between that and the UNITEL craft. The UNITEL craft design is based on the shape of a certain particle or something. [StealthSkater note: It is based on the quantum model of a photon, which is what UNITEL's staff saw in the 1981 Eugene, Oregon UFO sighting/ "demonstration".]
DeNite: I am afraid that we can only speculate about all other things behind that experiment. So many combinations, theories. And the people who know about it are not here to chat with us.
Marshall Barnes: I can't remember which, but Al had figured that the molecular shapes of these solids would be the type of shape you'd want to base a craft on. I groked that from looking at the similarity between them and the Egg itself.
ProfessorD: Marshall, please elaborate on the crystallography you mentioned. Does a certain frequency (resonant frequency) have to be involved?
Marshall Barnes: No, the crystallography has to do with craft shape.
Marshall Barnes: UNITEL likewise figured that the shape of the craft was important and pursued the same research.
dwcooper: Are you stating you believe UNITEL is capable of transdimensional travel?
ProfessorD: I don't think UNITEL is capable of much of anything unless they can drum up some venture capital. Hopefully their quantum computer will come to fruition soon.
Marshall Barnes: What I mean is we know that on the invisibility side what the physics would be. You need a field that will create a dielectric breakdown of the air. Now where you go from there is easy once you create that first condition. You just start experimenting with resonance, etc. But you have to reach that first condition. I suggest you look at the technical section of the
http://www.viewzone.com/philadelphia.html article to see what I mean. There are excellent examples in photographs.
ProfessorD: You told me once to bone up on my psychotronics lit. Where does that come into play?
dwcooper: psychotronics...yes, psychotronics
Marshall Barnes: ProfessorD, the psychotronics comes into play because what we want to do is interface with the associative Universe. In other words, psychotronics allow us to take advantage of the mind/matter interactions and effect objective reality. That's the current area of my research. I've built a studio for that expressed purpose. It's also how Montauk was done and -- in many ways -- what the Incunabula Ong's Hat material is based on. They sit in the Egg and then enter an altered state with the destination that they want in mind. But it is not an "Out of Body Experience (OBE)" per say. Your actual physical body is translocated to another position.