archived as http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Lazar_21.doc [pdf]
more related articles at http://www.stealthskater.com/Lazar.htm
note: because important websites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was archived from http://www.anomalies.net/area51/s4/boblazar/joe/ on February 27, 2006. This is NOT an attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned website. Indeed, the reader should only read this back-up copy if it cannot be found at the original author's site.
Joe Vaninetti - Questions and Answers about Bob Lazar
[responding to UFO researcher Bill Hamilton]
Dear Mr. Hamilton:
Sorry for the delay in responding to your questions. I wanted to take the time necessary to answer them in a way that will, hopefully, avoid any confusion.
Q: "With the tremendous opposition that Bob Lazar has had from researchers in UFOlogy, why have you now come forward and decided to release notes from your diary that corroborates Lazar's story?"
A: A brief review of my work history and my relationship with Bob is necessary to answer this question.
I was employed with Los Alamos National Laboratory (Los Alamos, NM) from 1979 until 1996. A security check was done on me, and I was issued a 'Q' clearance about 10 months after I hired on. (I was hired as a mechanical/electrical technician).
When Bob started going public with his story about working at S4, I had worked at Los Alamos long enough to have a very good position that I didn't want to jeopardize. Also, Bob has a very strong outgoing personality. And at first, he liked the attention he received. I -- on the other hand -- was not very outgoing. And I did not want to say or do anything that might divert some attention from Bob. In fact, I felt that I could not offer anything to Bob's story. He was the one who was there at S4 -- not me. I was just Bob's closest science-minded friend.
Later when UFO researchers (and I have a lot to say about UFO "researchers") started opposing Bob's story, Bob finally got fed up with the media, the negativity, and the poor research. His attitude was one of disregard rather than defiance. He couldn't care less if I or anyone else tried to corroborate his story. And I still had my 'Q' clearance.
After I terminated my employment with Los Alamos National Lab in 1996 and my 'Q' clearance was taken away, I started thinking about the information contained in the diary I had kept. (The diary was really more like a "record boo" at first where I wrote things down that I didn't want to forget. Later it turned into a "diary").
I decided the information should be made available to legitimately interested people. But I didn't know anybody that I could contact that would be interested in the information rather than in how much money the information might net him. Chance would have it that I talked to Olav Phillips last year, and he helped me to feel comfortable about getting this information out.
Q: What was your position at S4?
A: This question really bothers me, and it is the reason I took so long to answer these questions. You have made the decision in your mind from the little bit of information about me -- mostly from my diary -- that I worked at S4. It is questions or statements like this that generates disinformation and confusion. You don't ask "IF" I worked at S4 -- you already have jumped to the conclusion that I did.
For the record, I never worked at S4. And I never said or implied that I ever did work at S4. My answer to your first question briefly explains my work history, which I will be happy to go into more detail about later.
Please do not make assumptions and then treat them as fact. If you (or anyone else for that matter) have questions, just ask. I will answer any reasonable questions honestly and in enough detail to avoid confusion.
Q: Do you have further information to impart concerning what the managers of these S4 projects are doing and where this is going?
A: I never worked at S4!
Q: We in the skeptical UFO community are still open-minded enough to hear testimony. But many will want to have some means open to them to verify or authenticate sources of information. Does this bother you?
A: "To hear testimony"… It sounds like you ("the skeptical UFO community") are the judge and jury. And we (people with UFO-related experiences) are the accused.
In my case, all I can do is tell you the truth of what happened with regard to my involvement with Bob. Does it bother me if some of you need to verify or authenticate my diary, my story, or myself? Not at all. As I said before, I will answer any reasonable questions honestly and in enough detail to avoid confusion. What bothers me is poorly done research that distorts the truth.
Q: Let us know if you are going to come forward and say more.
A: As I find time, I will write detailed explanations of each page of the diary so that things will make sense. I planned to do this before it was put out on the Net. But Olav suggested just getting it out there and making sense of it later. I apologize for the confusion. Believe me, I do not like confusion.
In the meantime, I will answer questions on the Net as I have answered yours here. I feel that I should say don't place high expectations on me. I can corroborate Bob's story. And I can maybe explain some of the things Bob has said. But I cannot add any new and revolutionary information with regard to the UFOs or extraterrestrials.
I tried to answer your questions as truthfully and completely as possible for the time I had available. You may have noticed my skepticism of UFO researchers. I would be happy if both parties (the skeptical UFO community and the people with UFO-related experiences) could get closer together in communicating the truth. A step in that direction might be by concentration on the "Big Picture", rather than each individual looking at what is in it for them.
- Joe Vaninetti
Joe Vaninetti's Diary
and new revelations on an old story (Bob Lazar)
pp: 1-2:
May 1987
● Unscheduled Test. Yield? Name? Etc.
● Hypnogogic state
● 4 [or 9?] dimensions Universe:
(1) Matter(?) dominates: Speed-of-light is max. Time is forward.
(2) Anti-matter dominates: Speed-of-light is max. Time is reversed.
(3) Matter dominates: Everything moves faster than speed-of-light. Time is forward.
(4) Anti-matter dominates: Everything moves faster than speed-of-light. Time is reversed.
Universes are connected (tunnels) and can be traversed.
pp: 3-4:
Protons = Hebrons [sp?]
Neutrons =
Electrons = Leptons
Time and Gravity are waves and are in phase.
Element-115
Barry - explaining reactor staff. 2nd time out. (Unp)
Element-115 is what powered the disks.
On 3rd visit, saw demonstrations.
pp: 5-6:
Showed how it worked. Thought it was dangerous, powerful.
Could feel the power. Could push your hand away.
Barry put Element-115 into a reactor on a bench. 115 is kept in a lead cup [sp?]. 500 lbs of 115.
Not able to say where 115 came from. Told not to say.
"Some guy yelling at me" Saying not to talk about anything.
115 came out of one of the disks. 115 is obtained -- cannot be made.
Understands why it cannot be made.
It produces anti-matter under proton bombardment.
Bombarded w/ neutrons in storage and bombarded w/ protons to activate it.
pp: 7-8:
Very controlled bombardment in a very hard vacuum. Any proton burst detonates it.
Proton kicks it up to Element-116 and sets off a reaction. Element-116 is extremely unstable.
A low-energy proton will set [sp?] up to 116.
Makes ordinary matter behave like 'S' relative to 'N' in magnets.
[StealthSkater note: reminds me of 1950's Canadian radio engineer Wilbert Smith and his UFO-related 'Project Magnet' doc pdf URL ). And didn't Einstein once suspect that magnetism and gravity might be manifestations from a more fundamental force (his Unified Field Theory)? Stan Deyo reported that London-based Gravity Rand Ltd. Published "The Gravitics Situation" booklet in which a link was postulated between nuclear energy (doc pdf URL-doc URL-pdf ). So many scenarios … We need a "Doc Savage" doc pdf URL to put them all together!]
Looked like an arrowhead. 2" long and flat [sp?] and pointed.
Reactor is silent and doesn't get hot.
Strange part was before it was turned 'on' as it would move around. When turned on, it is "time shifted" and cannot be moved. "A little above my head".
Something w/ gravity sets up standing waves.
pp: 9-10:
Barry used hemostats to pick up the 115 from the Pd[sp?] cup. Was quick {??????} moving it from the cup to the reactor.
How was the hard vacuum achieved? No pump [was] around.
Reactor description. Round on top -- half a sphere. {?????} or base. Sphere has a connection [sp-connector?] on top.
115 goes in the top. Sets on a phylon[sp?] like a radiator cap to seal the unit. "I put the cap on." Makes a good seal.
Anti-matter tracks down a tuned tube. Has a powerful magnetic moment and frequency. Anti-matter goes to a matter target and a "thermocouple" converts the heat to energy.
pp: 11-12:
Not all the heat is used in electrical energy. Surface charge -- something to do with the outside connector [sp-connection?].
Threw a golf ball at the reactor and it bounced on the field.
Matter target is mostly dry Nitrogen.
Shape of the (UFO) disks are a constant shape because of the surface charge.
[A] guy w/ [a] girl's name (Rene)
Bob helped figure out what it was (a disk of {????}) before meeting Barry.
We can't make one of the reactors.
pp.13-14:
Keep 115 away from protons. "I never asked what the neutrons did."
Melts at 1740oC.
Storage temperature doesn't matter.
Dennis said 6 scientists cut into an active reactor.
Got 500 lbs of 115 from the "Kids". Didn't steal it.
223 grams to run each disk.
Barry said it lasts 20-30 years.
"I don't think we can get there" to where 115 comes from.
pp.15-16:
Gravity 'A' is a "monopole". Gravity 'B' is bipolar.
Electrons (Leptons) are made of 2 smaller particles that cannot be separated.
One part is a neutrino. Neutrinos are fundamental particles.
These 2 particles in leptons are held together by Gravity 'A'.
The other particle has the charge.
There are 4 sets of quarks(?). Each set is 10 times more massive than the last.
Up +⅔
Down -⅓
Strange
Charm
Beauty
Truth
pp.17-18:
"chargeons" ± ⅓
elementary charged particles
(-) plus a neutrino = electron-
(+) found in Up, Strange, and Beauty quarks w/ massive(sp? Mesons?)
(-) found in Down, Charm, and Truth quarks w/ massive(sp? Mesons?)
pp:19-20:
Massons and neutrinos have mass and posses Gravity 'A'.
Chargeons have no mass.
Quarks are made of different combinations of Massons and Chargeons.
Neutrinos are special case Massons
Chargeons act like photons.
pp:21-22:
Proton = 2 Up quarks and 1 Down quark
Neutron = 2 Down and 1 Up
Massons and Neutrinos have mass and posses Gravity 'A'.
Gravity 'B' is an artifact of the combination of the above.
pp: 25-26:
August 19, 1989
Bob's old boss Dennis from Groom Lake called and wanted to meet w/ him in the evening.
Dennis declined to meet Bob at Bob's house.
So it was finally arranged for Bob to meet Dennis at one of the casino bars downtown at 8:30.
Bob found Dennis there, but Dennis would not acknowledge Bob.
pp:27-28:
Dennis completely ignored him, wouldn't look him in the eyes, [and] said nothing.
And when Bob stood right in front of him, he just walked around Bob.
Very strange!
August 30, 1989
Dennis called Bob back. He sounded angry and threatening.
Told Bob [that] "they" weren't going to allow Bob to complete his project (HIDS).
Bob volunteered to go public and retract all that he has said.
Dennis response to that was "It's too late for that now. We're going to kill you."
He then hung up the phone.
pp:29-30:
Sept. 16, 1989
Test to do w/ clear "stuff":
(1) UV light
(2) Microscope
(3) put in milk(sp?) to see if it's selective to H2O
(4) Alpha test
(5) microwave w/ water in it
(6) fill with H2O and freeze it
(7) fill with H2O and heat
G.U.T.
Proton: each SMU has an attractive force ('A') working on all of the chargeons of the unit (i.e., a proton has 5 chargeons).
A unit held together this way would be nearly impossible to blow apart.
Free neutrons = 898 -sec[sp?] lifetime
Free protons = 10-39 seconds
pp:31-32:
Gravity 'B' is not bi-polar thing but 180o out-of-phase. (?)
Gravity waves stay constant but the amplitude because of the varying mass of the [planet?].
That's why saucers wobble when moving slow.
Saucers fly by going off the phase of the planet.
Protons posses Gravity 'B' on top of the fact that SMUs possess Gravity 'B'.
pp:33-34:
October 19, 1989 @ 7:15 pm
Just talked to Bob L. briefly on the phone.
He said that while out on his route today, he was chased again. A high-speed chase that lasted 20 minutes.
He said he had so much adrenaline in his stomach when it was all over that he felt like vomiting.
He said that he would call me back later as the film crew (I assume George Knapp) had arrived.
Bob called my house from a payphone.
Said that Jim was grilled by security people this evening.
They wanted to know all of what Bob had told him.
Threatened his clearance, etc.
Bob went in the afternoons.
All of this has come about because George Knapp of Channel 8 in Las Vegas started airing segments of an 8-part story about UFOs and the Government involvement. …
pp:35-36:
… It started Monday on the 6'oclock news. Bob is one of the key people in this series.