Self-Study Video 1 Transcript Page 1 of 4
Time / Transcript / Microskill00:00 / Sandra: Tell me a bit more about the contrast between the conversation yesterday with a number of us talking about your mom and the kind of conversations that you would have with Nichola or with your um, siblings around the issue of your mom.
00:18 / Simon: Yah. Right. Well, um, I’ll start with my siblings first. Um, of which I have um four, roughly speaking. We’ve have had so many foster children throughout the last forty years that a lot of them I refer to as my brothers and sister too right. So, four, I guess that I consult with which are my legal brothers and sisters right. So when I talk to them I guess I get various responses back right. One brother will just you know use a few curse words “leave it the hell alone, nothing’s going to change”. The other brother would likely want to talk about but he would quickly sort of “trump” my complaining with sort of bigger and more “grandiose” complaints that he has kind of thing. My one is sister is just “jokey”; just “jokey jokey jokey”, about the whole thing, right. Then my final sister, um you know always has, “mini-dramas” and struggles in her life right. So it’s actually touch and go on whether I could actually talk to her in sort of a serious kind of way about it. So it’s kind of like going through that checklist of people, you know. At times as I talk about yesterday, at times it’s helpful just for us to be able to go through that have that mutual understanding of how it is and what it’s like kind of thing right. But it’s difficult to take any further than that right, in terms of me being able to discuss freely and openly what’s on my mind around these topics you know, and for me to explore in any sense of the word, you know. Um...
02:10 / Sandra: So it’s not, it’s providing some sense of connection with them on the topic but it’s not necessarily meeting your needs.
02:17 / Simon: Yah. We connect on it right. And there’s ah, ah,...it’s helpful to connect, there’s for lack of a better word, a sense of communion in that connection we have you know. Which feels good, but, yah, um, feels like that’s one piece of it. There’s a whole other piece of it that I don’t get through conversing with my, my siblings on that.
02:43 / Sandra: So what happened yesterday that resulted in you feeling like you got something more from that conversation?
02:53 / Simon: Um, that’s a really question because last night, even when I put the head on the pillow, all these memories came flooding back, right, little things right. Some sad, some borderline tragic right, some really, really funny and I think um what I got from that was a broadened perspective at it; because I’m not sure who it was. It could have been you or Paul, or Jeff again, who highlighted a sense of some of my mom’s really strong qualities, you know. And I think it’s easy to find....I think when something’s as noticeable as her sort of “hygiene” struggles and her “cleanliness” struggles um, sort of, you become sort of tunnel vision on that right. And um you sort of lose sight of some of the more really inspiring things that she’s done in her life right. So I think by virtue of having that conversation it sort of broadened things out a bit more for me and it allowed me re-look at my mother in a different kind of way.
04:02 / Sandra: So it shifted your perspective a little bit.
04:06 / Simon: Yah, yah. Shifted or broadened it again. Right. Yah.
04:14 / Sandra: If, if you were going to put on your, um, your, um, “reflective” practice hat, and looking at what happened in the interaction yesterday, what was it about the skills that the person used who was talking to you that actually precipitated you both feeling heard and broadening your perspective?
04:38 / Simon: That’s a good question. Well, and and don’t take this the wrong way, any of you; um , even though this is a set-up situation I felt that when I was telling my story to everyone who heard it, which I think was all three of you, genuine interest in that story right. That sort of “hanging” on my words, right, and they wanted to understand that experience and they wanted to join me in that experience. Um, which is interesting, because at times we were demonstrating single skills right you know, which I think says a lot, that even one skill can create that sense of um being cared for by the counsellor, right. And I think, so I think that was helpful for me, that sense of “these people really care” and there’s a sense about that story that I’m telling right. And even if I’m using declarative probe, that’s still coming out for me right. That was one thing that was very helpful, that sense of interest and care for what I had to say.
05:48 / Sandra: So it sounds like there’s more than just this skill being communicated to, there’s something more; our empathy for what’re experiencing, our care for what you were experiencing
06:00 / Simon: Right. Because now that you mention it, each time I spoke last time, even though you know we had sort of decided that this is the skill I want to focus on, right. When I was telling my story, the skills really fade into the background. I wasn’t too aware of that you were asking open ended questions After the interview I couldn’t have told you what skills you used, at least very accurately, because that kind of like faded into the background, and I guess the presence of the counsellor what is that really came to the fore.
06:33 / Sandra: So what do you think that means in terms of the importance of skills?
06:39 / Simon: Skills? Well of course having written the theories course and having been involved in various courses...well it means a few things. One, is that it reminded me that when I was watching the student tapes from the weekend seminars um, that, um, even sometimes when student’s are struggling, you know, they have a real, real close question habit. And every question is “why?”, “why?”, “why this?”, “why this?” “do you?”, do you?”; and the clients often answer them like they are open kind of thing. And that skills are important, right, but there’s something out, relational, from a relational perspective that um, you um, portray or you embody that leads to that sense of care, that leads into that sense of compassion, that sense of interest in your story. So I think that’s sort of what punctuated it for me um, in the conversations yesterday, and now this conversation as well.
07:43 / Sandra: So there’s something about the quality of the relationship that, that involved, not just being able to listen to you, but linking back from an earlier part of the conversation, but being able to listen to you without imposing judgement or emotional reactions etc. that shifts it a little bit away from what you would encounter with your spouse or with your siblings
08:09 / Simon: That’s right. And it probably speaks to, without getting too theoretical, about what Carl Rodgers has said all along, about that “unconditional positive regard,” and that quality of relationship isn’t necessarily tied to a skill set right, it’s a way of being with someone I imagine.
08:24 / Sandra: You noted earlier that when you went to bed last night, you had all these things running through your head and I’d like to link back to that for a second if that’s okay?
08:33 / Simon: Sure, yah, absolutely.
08:34 / Sandra: So what was your emotional reaction to that sort of “replay”, as you lay there last night of these events from history?
08:44 / Simon: Um, one of the sort of primary feelings was I think, I’m not even sure if there’s a definition to this word, but a sort of sense of “pathos”, right. You know where it wasn’t quite sadness right, but it was almost like this sense of appreciation for you know, the sort of complexity of life right, and for the fact of, that life, almost inherently contains, um you know ah, situations that are tough, and situations that involve struggle but that we not necessarily resign ourselves to that, that we can still find light and joy in this world. So the term “pathos” would mean sort of holds up, you know those two things, that there is suffering and undesirable things that happen in this life, but that we need not be sort of crushed by that, kind of thing. So there was that sense of “pathos”, if I’ve described that word correctly... correctly right. But it was interesting. Those thoughts didn’t keep me up at all. We all have those “I wish I could turn that off and get to sleep” right, but there was also this sense of calm and peace about it. I had a great night’s sleep last night.
10:04 / Sandra: So it stirred up some emotion for you that uh, that uh carried some lingering sadness but there was still, you still had this sense of being okay with it.
10:15 / Simon: Yah. Um, almost, without seeming corny, almost at peace with it right. You know. Yah. And that must have been, I imagine it was calming to some degree, ‘cause like I said right, I didn’t lose a wink of sleep last night. Yah.
10:31 / Sandra: Yah. So how does that contrast with feelings you might have had at another point, thinking about these kinds of things?
10:39 / Simon: Yah, Great, great question. Because I know um in the past the day before mom’s to arrive or we are to proceed right, it has been more of sort of a restless “My goodness, I hope this goes well”, right. “Have I done all the sort of, as many things planned, you know as I planned, as well as I can to make things go well”, kind of thing. So I think at other times, there’s, it doesn’t quite hit agitation, but there’s a sense of unease about the topic, especially when it’s close to a time when I’m going to have a visit of some sort.
11:18 / Sandra: So that kind of anticipatory anxiety.
11:20 / Simon: Yah, like “oh my goodness, what’s this going to be like this time” right. Um, um, whereas as your question suggests or brought out, last night there was more of a sense of sort of calm, peace; “it’s okay, it’s not that bad”.
11:36 / Sandra: What’s your, what’s your sense of how lingering that shift to more of a calm, peaceful place might be?
11:45 / Simon: That’s right. Well, I plan to put that in a little bottle, put a little cap on it, and bring it out in about five months from now right...
11:55 / Sandra: “Taping-session time!”
11:57 / Simon: Yah, right. Or if I had a session with you Sandra, the day before, I do all my kind of thing right. Well one of the things I do on and off in great spurts is, um, I do a journal right. Yah, um, it’s a not a daily journal. It’s when I feel really um, inspired to write sort of thing, there’s a little voice inside that says “I need to write this so you know what you know”, kind of things. And I think this is one of those times, when I’m going to set in free form, um, just write for awhile. Cause I always find it very therapeutic when I go back and read that kind of stuff. So I would imagine that what I’m going to take with this is, just to sit down at the computer and type until, you know, the brain says “this is all you need to type right now”. And have that as something I can draw upon, when it does come time, August or whatever, to, or if or when I start feeling some of that anticipatory anxiety that would be those words that I write in the next day or two.
13:11 / Sandra: It’s like an opportunity to capture the moment in a way that will allow you to come back to it later on to remind yourself.
13:19 / Simon: Yah. Uh huh. Yah, yah, that’s the benefit of writing your thoughts down what a journal affirms that three, five, ten years later when you read back at it right you know. I mean sometimes it’s laughable at that point in time, but I think that also says, something very important.
13:34 / Sandra: Yah. So it gives you an opportunity to recognize that, that this is how I normally feel and something has shifted here and these are the things that were going through my mind that resulted in this shift so maybe it allows you to hold onto that shift a little bit longer.
13:51 / Simon: That’s right.
13:52 / Sandra: or revisit that shift. Great thank you.
13:54 / Simon: Uh huh.