Note of a Meeting with Welsh Government on the Future Generations Bill 7 March 2014

NOTE OF A MEETING WITH WELSH GOVERNMENT ON THE FUTURE GENERATIONS BILL – 7 MARCH 2014

Present:

Mrs Kate Cassidy, Departmental Director, Welsh Government

Professor Robert Lee, UKELA

Dr Nicholas Johns, Cardiff University

Dr Norma Barry, UKELA

1. Following introductions, it was stressed that UKELA was not a campaigning organisation, but was keen to work with Governments to help ensure that legislation is clear and works effectively in respect of the environment.

1. Kate Cassidy stated that there are plans to publish and introduce the Future Generations Bill into the National Assembly for Wales in order that it can have its first reading before the summer recess. She added that it was expected the Planning Bill would be introduced about the same time. The point was made that UKELA could comment on the Bill’s contents during its committee stage. The Environment and Sustainability Committee is likely to be inviting comments from interested parties at some time during the summer/autumn.

1. It was stressed that the Future Generations Bill would be concerned with the governance structures of public bodies and ensuring a sustainable development approach in order to help achieve future well being through the setting of high level goals, which can be clearly linked to the overall planning frameworks for Government and other bodies. The goals taken together will describe the long term social, economic and environmental well being of Wales. The fundamental operating principles of prevention; long-termism; integration; and collaboration are likely to be included in the Bill. It is acknowledged that there will inevitably need to be trade-offs so the concern is to ensure that the legislation will enable the Auditor General Wales and the Future Generations Commissioner to verify that organisations have taken account of the overall goals and principles when setting their objectives.

1. Kate Cassidy stated that officials are keen to try to ensure that the legislation will enable reasonably balanced, proportionate, simple and streamlined integration of the goals and principles into strategic priority setting by simply requiring those bodies to be subject to the duty to mainstream sustainable development into their existing processes for developing plans and allocating resources. There are also concerns to achieve balance and distinction between the roles of the Auditor General Wales and the Future Generations Commissioner as well as ensuring that the Commissioner’s role is flexible enough to identify areas for review and investigation without having to deal with individual cases.

1. Professor Lee commented that the legislation will be very much the start of a journey towards achieving sustainable development in the wider sense and that it will be important to achieve balance of process. Kate Cassidy said that officials were currently considering the long term aspects of the Commissioner’s role and how the various Commissioners in Wales can work together. There is likely to be an advisory council for the Future Generations Commissioner, involving the Chief Medical Officer, Natural Resources Wales together with the Commissioners for Children, Older People and the Welsh Language. The Commissioner would also work with business and the third sector. There was some discussion around the challenges for evidencing how the decision making processes will have taken full account of sustainable development principles and their longer term impact. It was acknowledged that it will be a learning journey.

1. Kate Cassidy added that the Bill will give Welsh Ministers delegated power to set indicators. Along with the recommendations of the Williams Commission, these are likely to relate to a relatively small number of high level outcomes consistent with the RBA approach, although the underpinning actions willneed to have performance measures. The importance of the indicators and performance measures having some consistency was outlined in order to enable benchmarking of various plans such as SIPs and LA corporate plans, as well as to enable effective tracking of progress. It was mentioned that SIPs had been introduced as a means of addressing the imbalance between social, environmental and economic interests in existing statutory requirements.

1. Professor Lee enquired about progress on the drafting of the Bill. In response, Kate Cassidy said the policy instructions were now agreed and that drafting is on-going. Professor Lee acknowledged the challenges of ordering the Bill.

1. In conclusion, thanks were offered to Kate Cassidy for providing an update on the current situation. UKELA representatives offered support and advice on any of the Bill’s mechanisms, including work on environmental indicators. Kate Cassidy thought that the drafting of the Bill’s Explanatory Memorandum would be important to ensure that it reflects the policy and legislative intentions and covers all relevant aspects. Agreed actions were as follows:

(i)Kate Cassidy to consider what contribution UKELA might make in relation to the Bill’s Explanatory Memorandum.

(ii)UKELA to prepare evidence on the Bill for the National Assembly for Wales’s Environment and Sustainability Committee.

(iii)Kate Cassidy to provide a one page summary and diagram on the Bill’s contents.

(iv)Consideration to be given to involving UKELA and Cardiff University on work in relation to development of indicators.

8 March 2014Norma Barry

UKELA Wales Coordinator