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‘After three days’ – ‘on the 17th’
Cog,Logos apostolic
Answered by Gerhard Ebersöhn
Read article by Cog Logos apostolicfrom the web-page given after my answers.
GE:
Matthew 28:1, “In the Sabbath’s fullness in the mid-afternoon”,Jesus rose “the third day according to the Scriptures”.He rose “On the Sabbath ....” on the Seventh Day of the week, “towards the First Day of the week”. On the Sixth Day of the week, was He buried; on the Fifth Day of the week was He crucified.Because Jesus rose from the dead on“First Sheaf Wave Offering before the LORD”,I believe the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God.
Cog:
“JESUS WAS LITERALLY THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE GRAVE”
GE:
Untrue! No passage from the Bible even points in that directions. If this is how ‘this study’ starts, I would not like to see how it is going to develop further.
Jesus never said, “IN THE GRAVE”. ‘In the grave’ is literal language; “in the heart of the earth” – what Jesus actually had said – is figurative language. Also, ‘In the earth’, is literal; but “in the heart of the earth”is not literal; it is figurative language.
When He said He would be “in the heart of the earth three days and three nights”, Jesus spoke figuratively of his own experience of suffering substitutionally eternal death for the sins of men; He spoke of his passover. What is literal language in Jesus’ words should be understood literally; what is figurative should be understood figuratively or ‘spiritually’. “In the heart of the earth” was meant figuratively for Jesus’ suffering and humiliation—that is, for his ‘descent into hell’. “Three days and three nights” although a prophecy, was meant for just “three days and three nights”— NOT just ANY three days and three nights, but the “three days and three nights”of Jesus’ last passover. The “three days and three nights”were the days of the passover of the Old Testament in the New Testament in and through Jesus Christ fulfilled. (Compare for example Jonah’s experience and Israel’s Pihahiroth situation,and Jesus’ suffering in the night of Gethsémane.)
The discussion should stop here, because everything Cog further alleges is based on this first erroneous presupposition of his that Jesus used the words “three days and three nights in the GRAVE”.
Cog:
“This bible study is about the timing of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and is based rock solid on the word of God.”
GE:
We shall see.
Cog:
“Its purpose is only to glorify the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you notice any errors you may contact us.
Articles:
2.21 He was raised on the third day
2.21 He was raised in three days
2.23 He was raised during three days?
2.24 He was raised after three days
2.25 He was raised after three days and three nights
2.26 Conclusion concerning the time of the resurrection of Jesus”
GE:
“If you notice any errors you may contact us.” I have already noticed one. ‘Error’ for me, means, not “according to the Scriptures”, and to say, “He was raised after three days and three nights” definitely is not “according to the Scriptures”.
Cog:
“2.21 He was raised on the third day
MATTHEW 16:21 (Jesus)
21 From that time forth began Jesus to show to his disciples, how that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
MATTHEW 17:22-23
22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said to them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men.
23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
MATTHEW 20:17-19
17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said to them,
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
MARK 9:30-31 (Jesus)
30 And they departed from there, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
31 For he taught his disciples, and said to them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
MARK 10:32-34 (Jesus)
32 And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen to him,
33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered to the chief priests, and to the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:34 And they shall mock him, and scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
LUKE 9:21-22 (Jesus)
21 And he strictly warned them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
LUKE 18:31-33 (Jesus)
31 And he took to him the twelve, and said to them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all thing that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.32 For he shall be delivered to the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spat on:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
LUKE 24:6-7 (An angel)
6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spoke to you while he was yet in Galilee,7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
LUKE 24:46 (Jesus)
46 And said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
ACTS 10:39-40 (Peter)
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and showed him openly;
1 CORINTHIANS 15:3-4 (Paul)
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
GE:
In ‘parallel’ texts the above would pair up as follows:
Mk9:31 “he shall rise the third day”;
Mt17:23 “the third day he shall be raised again”;
Mt16:21“be raised again the third day”;
Lk9:22 “be raised the third day”;
Lk14:32 “the third day I shall be perfected”;
Mk10:34 “the third day he shall rise again”;
Mt20:19“the third day he shall rise again”;
Lk18:33 “the third day he shall rise again”;
Lk24:7 “the third day rise again”;
Lk24:46 “to rise from the dead the third day”;
ACTS 10:40 “raised up the third day”;
1Cor15:3“he rose again the third day according to the scriptures”;
Mt27:64 “till the third day shall be over”.
Does it say ‘the fourth day’, or, ‘on the fourth day’? It does not. Therefore, “after three days” does not mean ‘the fourth day’, or ‘on the fourth day’.
Cog:
“Note 1: In every one of these scriptures except one (Luke 18:33) the expression “the third day” is translated from the Greek words th hmera th trith (Gtr. te trite hemera), which are the singular of the dative case, the adjective being in the “Attributive Intermediate Position” (Ward Powers p85). In Greek the dative describes a point in time when it is used in reference to time, and “te trite hemera” literally means “on the third day” (D.F. Hudson p105; Ward Powers p112; H.P.V. Nunn p47), that is, at some particular point in time on that day. That translated “the third day” (Luke 18:33) is the Greek expression th hmera th trith (Gtr. te hemera te trite), which mean exactly the same thing as “te trite hemera”, but has the adjective in the “Attributive Post Position” (Ward Powers p85; H.P.V. Nunn p60).”
GE:
The meaning of “the adjective being in the “Attributive Intermediate Position”” and “the adjective in the “Attributive Post Position”” you say, “mean(s) exactly the same thing”. Have you another point to make then, than, “In Greek the dative describes a point in time when it is used in reference to time, and “te trite hemera” literally means “on the third day””? What other meaning might be hidden in there then? I suppose we shall have to wait and see.
Cog:
“Note 2: How then do we understand this? Jesus died on the day of the Passover, which was the 14th of the month (Leviticus 23:5; Numbers 9:5; Ezra 6:19), and the preparation for the feast of unleavened bread (John 19:30-31).”
GE:
I would like to know what “the singular of the dative case” has to do with this information or, what this information, with “the singular of the dative case”? Does “the singular of the dative case” mean“the feast of unleavened bread” was not“the Passover”? Does it mean that “the preparation” in “John 19:30-31” was not “the feast of unleavened bread” in “John 19:30-31”? What would “the singular of the dative case” have to do with these things? NOTHING. Were these impossibilities perhaps that which we had to wait for and see?
If you not because of the Dative have said these things, then on what grounds do you think “the Passover” was not “feast”, or “the feast of unleavened bread” was not “the Passover”? Was only “the day of the Passover, which was the 14th of the month”, “the Passover”, and not “the feast of unleavened bread”, also? Wasn’t “the feast of unleavened bread” also, “the Passover”? See how subtly you introduce your fraud! Speaking in particular you confuse ‘Passover-day’ and ‘Feast-day’ which, speakinggenerally, are BOTH ‘passover’ AND BOTH, ‘feast’.
Cog:
“He died around the ninth hour (Matthew 27:46-60; Luke 23:44-46), which would be around 3 p.m. in the afternoon (See #2.16 Note 2), and was buried the same day (Luke 23:50-56).”
GE:
First you divide and separate the days of passover. You view ‘passover-day’ as belonged it not to the feast; and ‘feast-day’ as belonged it not to the passover.
Then againyou confuse and mergethe days of passover. “He died the ninth hour .... 3 p.m. in the afternoon”‘passover-day’and “was buried the same day”‘feast-day’.
Jesus was not buried the same day he was crucified, Abib 14; He was buried on the ‘Feast-Day’, Abib 15.
“Matthew 27:46-60; Luke 23:44-46” cover Crucifixion-day; NOT day of Burial! And Cog also failed to divide the Scriptures correctly here, because Mt27:57, Mk15:42, Jn19:31 and Lk23:50 all indicate the beginning – “it now had become evening” – “evening”of the day on which Joseph still had to bury Jesus.
Crucifixion-day had stopped BEFORE “Matthew 27:46-60” because Burial-day had had started in Mt27:57,“already”. Did Cog miss this fact? Why would he treat “Matthew 27:46-60” and “Luke 23:44-46” as included they the same time on the same day?
“Matthew 27:46-60”, spans across the end of the first and the beginning of the next days because day of Crucifixion ends, sunset before the following “evening” mentioned in 27:57, and the day of Burial begins after sunset with the following “evening”mentioned in 27:57.
“Matthew 27:46-60” spans across the end of the first and the beginning of the next days; “Luke 23:44-46”does not even reach to the end of the first of these days. “Luke 23:44-46”deals with Crucifixion-day, but the day’s end came after verses “44-46”; the end of Crucifixion-day is recorded up to, and including verse 49.
Lk23:50begins the history of the following day and of Joseph’s undertaking and therefore is the parallel text of Mk15:47, Mt27:57 and Jn19:31/38.
Joseph had buried Jesus “the same day” according to “Luke 23:50-56”, absolutely right! The day that began in“Luke 23:50-xx”, Mk15:47, Mt27:57 and Jn19:31/38, in the end was “The day(that) wasthe Preparation”, says Lk23:54a. “That day .... The Preparation .... was a great day of sabbath”, says Jn19:31.
According to “Luke 23:50-56” verse 54b — to be precise — from“by the time of the Jew’s preparations” Jn19:42 and “mid-afternoon the Sabbath drawing near” Lk23:54b,“that day” (Jn19:31),this “the same day”,started nearing its end! It had not ended YET. Sunset, it would end.
In other words, “around 3 p.m. in the afternoon”, “mid-afternoon”-‘epefohsken’ Lk23:54b, “by the time of the Jews’ preparations” Jn19:42, “the same day” Lk23:54a, was beginning to come to an end and “the Sabbath drew near”Lk23:54b.
Burial-day thus from its beginning in
Mt27:57, Mk15:42, Jn19:31 and Lk23:50,
extended untilits ending implied in
Mt27:62, Lk23:56b and Jn19:42.
Mt27:62 looks back to Friday evening because it speaks of“the following morningAFTER the Preparation”.
Lk23:54 looks forward to Friday evening because it speaks of, and “was” indeed,“The Preparation and / while the Sabbath Day was nearing” and the women the imminent Friday eveningwould begin to “rest the Sabbath”, 56b.
Four Scriptures have bearing on the evening-beginning of the Sabbath Day (on Friday after sunset)—
four Scriptures in terms of the time of the two days involved:
1) Lk23:54 prospectively, “mid-afternoon” on the Sixth Day of the week when“the Sabbath drew near”;
2) Jn19:42 “the same day”same time“by the time of the Jew’s preparations”;
3) Lk23:56b by inference, evening on the Sabbath (on Friday after sunset) when the women “began to rest the Sabbath”;
4) Mt27:62 retrospectively, “on the following morning(of the Sabbath) after The Preparation”.
This ‘sabbath’“after The Preparation” —as must be deduced from these four Scriptures and the Friday-evening involved or implied —indisputably was “The Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment”, and therefore,the day which preceded this ‘sabbath day’ undeniably was “The Preparation which is theFore-Sabbath” or Friday.
This “same day” the Sixth Day of the week, Friday,had had begun (on Thursday night), here: In Mt27:57, Mk15:42, Jn19:31, Lk23:50,“It now having had become eveningThe Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath”.
Cog has said NOTHING that may prove these conclusions wrong oronly improbable. He simply did not see any of these many implications although theyare written in clear and plain words. That is why Cog had to resort to strange doctrines to explain the “three days” and the Prepositions and Cases of its use, as we shall see.
Cog:
“There are different ways that we can interpret the phrase “the third day”. One way is to count the days after his death on the 14th. The first day would be the 15th ....”
GE:
There is only one way that we can interpret the phrase “the third day”, and that is, “the third day according to the Scriptures”, the ONLY Scriptures according to which shall be the passover-Scriptures, inevitably. No arbitrary ‘interpretation’ will do.
“.... to count the days after his death on the 14th” as a ‘way that we can interpret the phrase “the third day”’ is completely illegitimate. For two reasons over more. The first is, arbitrary ‘counting’; the second is, “to count the days after his death on the 14th” so that the day of his death the fourteenth is left out of ‘count’.
1) Arbitrary ‘counting’ .... See study, ‘Friday Crucifixion SDA’.
2) “To count the days after his death on the 14th” .... in other words, make Abib 15 “the first day” of the “three days” prophesied. No, Jesus foretold that his death would mark his entering in upon the “three days”, not his burial!
Why, if you take the Resurrection as mark of “thethirdday” of the “three days and three nights”“three days”, you surely must take Crucifixion and Death as mark of the first day of the “three days and three nights”“three days”, and Burial as mark of the second day of the “three days and three nights”“three days”. You should ‘count’THE day OF his death, “the 14th”, day one!
While the rest of your argument is based on your erroneous – in fact, FALSE – presupposition, “To count the days after his death on the 14th”, this conversation – for the second time – should stop right now, because you have no case on any presupposition that excludes day of Crucifixion and Death to be counted the first day of passover.
For “the first day” is the day of the killing of the sacrifice actually numbered and named in both the Old and the New Testaments. Lv23:15b, “Even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses.” “The first day without leaven / the first day of de-leaven WHEN they KILLED the passover” Mk14:12. Day of Crucifixion Abib 14 was “thefirstday”“according to the Scriptures” 1Cor11:23 confirming, JUST LIKE the day He rose from the dead was “thethirdday according to the Scriptures”Abib 16. And just so was the day in between – ‘sabbath’ of passover Lv23:11,15 – and day of Jesus’ entombment, Abib 15, the second day of passover “according to the Scriptures”, 1Cor15:3-4 confirming.