CITY OF NOWTHEN
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY, August 26TH, 2014 @ 7:00 P.M.
(Minutes are being taped for transcribing purposes only)
Present: Jeff Pilon Harold Jorgensen Walter Cleath
Dale Ames Jim Scheffler
Absent: Barry Wagner Robert Mahutga
Others: Elizabeth Stockman,
The Planning Company LLC
Chairman Ames called the meeting to order at 7:05 PM
· Pledge of Allegiance
· Approve/Amend tonight’s meeting agenda – August 26, 2014
Pilon made motion to approve tonight’s meeting agenda of August 26, 2014. Scheffler seconded the motion, all in favor; motion carried.
· Approve/Amend the July 22, 2014 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes - Ames made motion to approve July 22, 2014 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes. Cleath seconded the motion all in favor; motion carried.
1. PUBLIC HEARING – Request by Neal Higgins and the MN Amateur Space Modelers Association (MASA) for an Interim Use Permit to allow the use of a portion of the sod farm owned by F & S Land Group to launch model rockets. The launching site is located just westerly of the Tiger Street & 211th Avenue intersection (PID 18-33-25-14-0003 and 18-33-25-13-0001). The group intends to hold monthly club rocket launches (1 or 2 times per month) with the intent of promoting a fun and safe hobby. The club meetings occur on one weekend day, typically the 4th Saturday of the month, from April 1st through November 31st of each year with the requested hours of 8 AM to 4:30 PM. MASA has been flying at this site for nine years without any known complaints. This group is separate from the model airplane and helicopter flying groups which are not included as part of this request.
Planner Stockman said the request we have before us is to allow this Amateur Rocket Group to launch their rockets on the sod farm property.
The City currently doesn’t allow this type of recreation. We consider this private or semi-private, so what the City would need to do is to amend our ordinance to add this type of a use as an Interim Use Permit. And then this request is for an IUP to operate there.
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Planner Stockman said that she failed to notice the actual change in ordinance so the public hearing for that ordinance amendment will be at the City Council level. But it was put on the agenda so that the P & Z can discuss it while the neighboring residents are here tonight. Ms. Stockman said she did check it with the City Attorney and it is acceptable to approve that ordinance amendment if the Council would chose to do so on the same night as the Interim Use Permit they requested. So she asks the P & Z to make their recommendation tonight as they normally would and keep in mind that this type of a use and what they are proposing is strictly a model rocket group and they are not associated with the airplane or helicopter groups or any other flying group. Having said that the amended ordinance, Ms. Stockman replied, that you have before you would apply to these other groups if they were to come forward and also have their application co-signed by the property owners. They also could apply for an Interim Use Permit then.
If they asked for this same property owned as the Rocket Group’s to co-sign this application and they chose not to back that request it would be a different situation.
Planner Stockman said she just wanted to make it clear that allowing one private or semi-private group for outdoor recreation means that it would open it up for others. And this would apply to the whole RRA District as it is currently – or most of the city.
Ms. Stockman said what they are requesting she thinks is a reasonable use and to talk through some of the details or what the public’s concerns may be. This launch site is about a half mile further north than the airplane group was discussing of their site previously.
Neal Higgins said he would like to say that the MASA Rocket has been flying at the Nowthen sod field since 2005 and as far as they know there have been no complaints made against their club flying there. They do as a club have this hobby of rocketry for all ages, levels, skills and have worked with one of the local cub scout troops here (Pack 95) and come out to the field.
When the Rocket club does fly, they fly one day a month usually the fourth Saturday of the month. They limit their hours of 8 AM until 4 PM give or take one hour for set up and take down. Everything is taken down when they have finished flying and nothing is left on site.
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Two times a year they will run a week-end (2-day) event and again nothing is left over night on the grounds.
The organization is part of the National Organization and covered by liability insurance through the National Association of Rocketry.
Their club supports rocketry and they help scouts, schools, churches and whoever wants their help - they are there.
Ted Cochran spoke and said he was from Minneapolis and is the President of the National Association of Rocketry which is the national organization which is parent for this local club and all of the other 145 local clubs around the United States.
Mr. Cochran said their mission as an organization is they’re a 501C3 Educational Scientific Organization. Our Motto is to make sure the rocketry is safe, educational and fun. They try to get kids of all ages out to learn about aerospace engineering through rocketry.
They have helped with several different organizations and have even written a book. They have a fire code that they have to abide by and they have never had a fatality in the entire 56 year, 500 million flights history of rocketry in the United States. It’s the safest outdoor activity that he can think of.
Mr. Cochran says he would support this club’s IUP application and also support – when he was driving up here and he remembers when he was a kid growing up in a rural area and it snowed out they would all go to the biggest hill and when hunting, go to the best hunting area or they would go to the best fishing area. This type of farm location – he fully understands the IUP application. He likes the idea of the farm land being used also with their permission of using it for this type of activity besides farming.
Public Input:
Resident Randi Erickson 9285 205th Avenue said many of the audience know her because she has been here before, she lives next to these people and yes they were quiet in the beginning but have grown from one group to five. They are outrageous, they camp, they drink and do everything else there and she is pretty much sick of it. She said she is the one that started the motion to stop it.
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Ms. Erickson said now one thing when you do allow people in your back yard, us taxpayers out here, we get to subsidize that farm. It’s called Green Acres and soon as some else takes that deduction they lose that subsidy and I’m told that Mr. Fricke and Rick Shermer, both partners called here to cancel this meeting. Ms. Erickson questioned Ms. Mahutga and asked if she was correct about that? Ms. Mahutga said that there was talk that they were going to, yes.
Ms. Erickson said to the Commission, so be careful and as soon as you approve this, she is taking this man to tax court. Ms. Erickson said she is certified by the Department of Revenue and is a Tax Judge and she will take this man and he will lose his Green Acres for nine years – that’s his penalty and they will go back that far. So be careful what your motion is – I will take him to tax court and I understand he asked legal advice from Liz about zoning. Ms. Erickson said she wouldn’t say any more at this point.
Planner Stockman asked Ms. Erickson what she had meant with that last statement? Ms. Erickson said that she understood Mr. Fricke came to her and asked if this was legal. Ms. Erickson said she told him to go and see a lawyer.
Planner Stockman said he asked of what her discussion with the County Assessor was and she had e-mailed to him. Ms. Erickson asked if she had told the Assessor that he would lose his Green Acres? Ms. Stockman said she told the Assessor exactly what we, the City, were potentially approving? It is an interim use permit for this activity and she asked the Assessor if that would change the underlining designation and the Ag status of his property.
At this point Ms. Erickson handed out the Minnesota Revenue – Green Acres – Minnesota Ag Property Tax Law Sheet.
Ms. Erickson said as soon as he transferred possession of his land – the status changed. Planner Stockman said he did not transfer possession of his land. Ms. Erickson said he transferred possession by lease or anytime anyone steps on his land he doesn’t have control over it any more. That’s what possession is.
Planner Stockman said just to clarify – she did have an e-mail from the County Assessor stating that issuing an interim use permit for this property for an interim use permit would not change the land use.
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The temporary use of this land for a flying launch area according to the County Assessor does not constitute a change in the land use. The temporary use as a plan for a launching pad, according to County Assessor, does not constitute a change in land use.
Ms. Erickson asked who the Assessor was and it was not the one that Ms. Erickson was familiar with and said that that Assessor was not familiar with the Green Acres Tax Law.
Ms. Stockman said they have 600 acres and they are flying on only a portion of this. Ms. Erickson said it doesn’t matter, it’s all green acres and they perjured themselves when they filled out the form for green acres, and the penalty for this isn’t cheap.
Son of Resident Rob Schiller (Riley) (21269 Jarvis St.) said he likes to see the airplanes fly over his house and the rockets shoot up and wants to continue seeing them.
Pilon said that Mr. Fricke and Mr. Shermer do not take any money and offers their land for them to use.
There were no other comments from the public, but Pilon asked if anyone else in presence for the other public hearings on the agenda for tonight, would have an opinion even though not living beside this property?
Richard Teth of the 3DC flying Club said their hours are different and there is no camping or drinking. He said there are four other clubs in Anoka County.
Resident Mike Suchy said he didn’t know about green acres or the noise but anything that the community can help kids to know and learn is good.
Resident Shirley Yarke asked if any of the other clubs are charged for the use of this land? Answer was that yes one of the clubs does pay for the usage. Ms. Yarke said even they had their green acres taken away from them and have enough acreage.
Ms. Erickson said it’s not the income; it’s the use that makes the difference.
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Ames made the comment that they couldn’t park on roads and have to park on the sod – don’t know how if it is wet that they can park on the sod. Ms. Higgins said if rainy, and too wet, they don’t go out there and fly.
Commission member Walter Cleath said his son belongs to Boy Scout Pack 95 and has taken part in the rocketry and he feels it is safe and the kids have fun.
Scheffler asked Mr. Higgins that when he had stated that they had not had any complaints against you – how do you know these complaints weren’t you that we have had?
Ms. Stockman said that the rocket group is ½ mile further north than the 3DRC airplanes and those people came into their launching area from 205th. This rocket launching is the one off 211th Avenue and Tiger Street and there are no structures at that site.
Ms. Stockman said tonight’s decision is only the rocket group. Each group would have to come forward and ask for an IUP – if the ordinance were to be amended.
Scheffler asked if this request for the IUP is granted, how are you going to keep the other groups off the property? How will the Sheriff know you from the other flying clubs?
Mr. Higgins said they wear badges that say their flying names. If the airplane or helicopter clubs want to come out and apply – that’s up to them. They can come out, Mr. Higgins said.
Question as to the days and times that they are there – will the Sheriff know that? Mr. Higgins said that is a good question and they’ll have to discuss that.
Pilon said he thought that rockets are easily identified from airplanes and helicopters. The sheriff should then know, but Pilon said he doesn’t know what they would be responsible to sort out and thinks that is up to the Sheriff to know.
Neither Mr. Fricke or Mr. Shermer were present tonight at this public hearing, but Ms. Stockman said they had told her that they have removed, personally, people from their property since problems arose.
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Pilon said at a previous meeting when it got contentious, the club was told to pay money and go through the process. He said he wanted to commend them for taking the effort to do that and that the cooperative owners signed to have a Public Hearing in order to apply for an IUP.
Planner Stockman spoke to Mr. Shermer and Mr. Fricke and they were contemplating cancelling but it was too late to really cancel this Public Hearing and so it wasn’t cancelled and now the Public can be heard and Mr. Shermer and Mr. Fricke can still pull out in writing after tonight.