TRANSCRIPT
OF PROCEEDINGS
AUSCRIPT
Further Proposal Hearing 19.1.99 XXX
©Auscript Pty Ltd 1999
O/N 5567
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
INQUIRY:
REDISTRIBUTION OF BOUNDARIES
FOR THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
ELECTORAL DIVISIONS
TRIBUNAL MEMBERS:
THE HONOURABLE ROBERT NETTLEFOLD, Chairman
MR JULIAN GREEN, member
MR DAVID FARRELL, Member
MR CHRISTOPHER ROWE, Member
MR RODNEY CASWELL, Member
HOBART
10.06 AM, TUESDAY, 19 JANUARY 1999
Continued from 10.12.98
Further Proposal Hearing 19.1.99 XXX
©Auscript Pty Ltd 1999
THE HON MICHAEL AIRD MLC: [10.06am]
THE CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Mr Aird.
MR AIRD: Good morning, Mr Nettlefold, how are you?
THE CHAIRMAN: Pretty well. What about you?
MR AIRD: I am away from Hobart so I apologise for having to put you to this inconvenience.
THE CHAIRMAN: No, you have not inconvenienced us.
MR AIRD: Good.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is okay. Now, the members of the Tribunal have read your submission so it is just a matter now for you to further your proposal or submission in just whatever way you find convenient at the moment, okay?
MR AIRD: Okay, thank you. Well, basically it is a pretty simple argument that I am putting forward and firstly, as I indicated in my submission, I apologise for not making it earlier, but it just - when I saw the further redistribution I decided to make this submission because it is a matter of really working what is the community of interest and under the model I think I have satisfied that. The fact is that as a Member for Derwent I would have to travel to these areas anyhow and the people living in these areas would also have a natural inclination to deal with the Member for Derwent and I think in terms of servicing the electorate that it would be easier and more practicable for these townships to be relocated back into Derwent.
I mean, that in essence is my argument. As you can see I think I have put a simplistic case but nonetheless it is a very practical way of dealing with the issue of community of interest. The people of Hamilton and Ouse particularly I would have to, as a Member for Derwent, deal with the social and community infrastructure there in terms of just the local townships and like, you know, I would have to go to the Hamilton Show, I would have to deal with the Ouse school and I just think it is a practical way of dealing with the practical way of a member servicing an electorate.
I think it is easier for a southern-based member than a northern-based member and it is a natural way of people in those areas using the Lyell Highway as a part of their day-to-day activities and so I just it is the practical solution to what could be a logistical problem for not only constituents but also for the members. I am happy to answer any questions in relation to it.
THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Mr Aird, thank you. Now, does any member of the Tribunal have a question for Mr Aird, please?
MR GREEN: Yes, Chairman. It is Julian Green speaking, Mike.
MR AIRD: Yes, Julian.
MR GREEN: On the dot points you raise as regards community of interest concerning the various towns, I am looking particularly at Ouse and Hamilton
MR AIRD: Yes.
MR GREEN: seems that the case you have made was also applicable to Bothwell or do you have any distinguishing features about the Bothwell area that leaves Bothwell in Rowallan and not bring it into Derwent, as you propose?
MR AIRD: Well, the reason I did not do that really was the basis f the numbers in terms of the readjustment. I think it is probably easier to travel to Bothwell, particularly - the practical way from a member's point of view would be to Bothwell say, if a member in Rowallan lived in Deloraine, that it would be easier to service Bothwell, particularly, you know, a member travelling from the north - the south say, when Parliament is sitting, it would be a more practical way of servicing the electorate and I think that Bothwell probably, in terms of community of interest would have a greater association with the lakes area and that is why I have left it alone but from my perspective the reason I did not include Bothwell was based on the numbers but if it was proposed that Bothwell could, in terms of that argument, be put in a community of interest, I would accept that argument but I did not bother going to that because the fact is that Bothwell does stand alone in terms of - I would not, as a member, deal with Bothwell the same way as I would deal with say, Hamilton and Ouse, that using a highway I would be, as a member and the community that I would represent would also be using the social and community infrastructure in Hamilton and Ouse and to a lesser degree, Tarraleah and Wayatinah. Am I making my argument
MR GREEN: Yes, I understand your point, yes. Yes, thanks for that.
MR AIRD: All right.
MR GREEN: That is all, Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any further questions?
MR ROWE; Not from me, Chairman.
MR CASWELL: No, not from me.
MR FARRELL: Not from me.
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr Aird, just one point following on from what MrGreen put to you. Do you recollect off the top of your head, so to speak, what the history of Bothwell is from an electoral or Legislative Council Electorate point of view? Has it always been part of the northern seat or
MR AIRD: My most recent understanding is it has always belonged to the southern electorate. Bothwell in recent times, I think from the redistribution back in - it was either in the late 70s or early 80s - has been part of the Derwent electorate. That is my most recent
THE CHAIRMAN: Is it part of Derwent now?
MR AIRD: It is now, yes, it is now. It is - I mean, if it was numerically possible to be part of the southern electorate I would not oppose that at all, and in one sense I thought it was a bit different in terms of servicing the electorate. There is a connection through Hamilton to Bothwell and servicing the electorate I often go through via Hamilton to Bothwell and come back again. Sometimes I would go further on to Miena but I think that would be really stretching it in terms of this proposal.
Bothwell can still sit neatly in the southern electorate but it does not quite classify in the same way as that I think that a southern member would be dealing with Hamilton, Ouse and Wayatinah in the normal course of events and so that is why I have made the submission the way I have but I would be, as I said, not - I would not have a problem with Bothwell being included in Derwent yet again.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you have said, among other things, that if it were numerically possible you would not oppose the inclusion of Bothwell in Derwent.
MR AIRD: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: Could I rephrase that into a positive form, if it was numerically possible you would support the inclusion of Bothwell?
MR AIRD: Oh yes, yes, I would support it. I would support it on the basis that in terms of - Bothwell is interesting because some parts or some people in Bothwell prefer to go through to Deloraine and they see themselves as part of, you know, they like to go through that way but then again most of their children who go to school, say at boarding school or even get the bus from Bothwell go to southern schools and so there could be an argument put which would say that there would be a greater inclination for people at Bothwell to be - identify themselves as part of the south rather than north, so I would support it.
THE CHAIRMAN: So, it is a question for the Tribunal as you would see it, to grapple with the numbers problem; is that the idea?
MR AIRD: Yes. Well, I thought that might be stretching it and I did not know what other adjustments could be made in terms of other electorates
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MR AIRD: that could adjust it but if - I mean, again, it would be a matter of finding the correct model to find the adjustment because I was just dealing with the most immediate problem of the Lyell Highway but if for instance, there would be an adjustment to Apsley which - and there has been some comment about Apsley in terms of its size, but I think there is always going to be an electorate like that anyhow, the same way as there is in the Lower House at Lyons has a lot of the extra areas. It is a big electorate but -so if there could be an adjustment made yes, I would support that Bothwell be included in Derwent.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Now, are there any supplemental questions arising out of those few questions I asked Mr Aird, please?
MR GREEN: No, Chairman, thank you.
MR ROWE: No, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Mr Aird. Well, thank you very much for your submissions and rest assured that they will be very carefully considered.
MR AIRD: All right, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Good, thank you.
MR AIRD: Thank you.
THE SPEAKER WITHDREW [10.15am]
THE HON SILVIA SMITH MLC: [11.03am]
THE CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Mrs Smith.
MRS SMITH: Good morning, Mr Nettlefold.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have all read your submissions. We would like to proceed as follows, please, in that we would like you just to put whatever further submissions you wish to put. Just put your case, so to speak, as you wish to put it right now, if you please.
MRS SMITH: Certainly. Well, as you note from both my submissions, I am talking on two specific points only. The first point re the proposed boundary changes, the main issue that i had in mind was the consideration of the size of Apsley and also, of course, enhancing the opportunities for the people of the island.
As many of you will be possibly aware, I have been the previous member for Bass so I have an affiliation with these islands to start with, and I am suggesting that (1) to assist Apsley, the member of Apsley, it would downsize the size of that electorate for that member and it also could enhance at an electorate like Westmorland, as it is now, by adding in a more rural aspect. I found as the member for Bass that it was very useful to have a mixed electorate, so to speak; and, of course, Westmorland, as it is and as it is potentially going to be in the new electorate, becomes still an urban-type electorate even though it will stretch down to Georgetown.
It would also, I suggest, offer to the people of Flinders and Cape Barren Islands easier access to a member who represents a more diverse electorate. I think I said in the second submission that I thought it would be a very good idea if time had permitted to have some input from the community of the two islands in particular as to how they felt, where they found themselves sitting in the political scene. So that basically is what my ideas are on the boundary changes.
The second proposal was re the renaming of Westmorland to, on the Tribunal's suggestion, Windermere, and my suggestion is that after consideration the name Barnard - and I think I have pretty well set it out. I mean, we have two historical figures almost, perhaps not quite into the ancient history, of members called Barnard who have served that electorate plus the extended into the whole electorate of Bass; and plus I found that the name Windermere, as much as the name Westmorland, I often ask people what electorate they think I represent and a big percentage of them have no idea or have no affiliation. You know, why call it Westmorland has been a question I have copped a lot of times.
Then I would suggest that the possibility would happen again. Why call it Windermere? For example, people up in Waverley and Ravenswood, even way down to Georgetown, I am just thinking that maybe the name Barnard would be more open to affiliation to most people as feeling they are part of the political system. I doubt that only the new members, the people of the electorate who have come in, as to the older generation and the more modern generation would know the name Barnard from either H.G. Claude Barnard or, of course, from the more recent gentleman, Lance Barnard.
The other suggestion put to me was that the names for electorates being used were geographical features. Well, it is not always the case. I noticed that Wellington and Nelson are certainly not necessarily just geographical features; they are historical people as well. And Barnard's Creek, as you are aware, is also at this point part of the western border of Westmorland and, in fact, in the new electorate it will actually cut down through almost a central point of the electorate as it comes through at the southern end of Dilston.
So they are basically the two points I was putting. And I think with the name Windermere, I mean, there is a lot of confusion about names. I know there has been a lot of media recently about the name Windermere in other aspects. I do not contend that that would necessarily be a major problem by naming an electorate that but I think the main point I would like to make about the naming of them actually is that people are so far alienated from a political system it might be a method of getting people more encouraged into participating in the political system if they can understand and recognise where they sit in the system; and I think sometimes that is by giving an electorate a name that they can, sort of, getting to think with.
I mean, Bass - people getting to think with Bass. It belongs to Bass Strait, it belongs to Bass the explorer. But Westmorland at the moment is a little bit odd and I feel that people will not understand why a new electorate is being named Windermere. And that is my suggestion. Give them something they can feel more comfortable with. So if anyone has got any questions they would like to ask me on my thoughts on those two issues, I am quite happy to take them.