MATERIALS TESTING
JANUARY 2006
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
JANUARY 23 – 27, 2006
Crowne Plaza Redondo Beach
Redondo Beach, California
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, JANUARY 23, 2006 – CLOSED SESSION (MORNING)
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
1.1. Call to Order/Quorum Check
The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Keith Kastner. A quorum of Primes was present for the Closed sessions and a quorum of Primes and Suppliers were present for the Open sessions.
1.2 Introductions were made by all attendees.
1.3 Attendance
An attendance roster was distributed for all to sign. The following attendance list includes all present during the CLOSED and OPEN meetings on Monday (1/23), Tuesday (1/24), and Wednesday (1/25):
User Members Present:
NAME / COMPANYArt / Anderson / Honeywell
Muriel / Auzanne / AIRBUS S.A.S.
William / Barnett / Bell Helicopter
Marcel / Bei / AIRBUS S.A.S.
Mike / Bemis / Goodrich
Dianna / Berube / Pratt & Whitney
Nick / Bulloss / Honeywell Aerospace
Ben / Clark / Eaton Aerospace
Neil / Clarke / Rolls-Royce plc
Bill / Davis / G.E. Transportation Aircraft Engines
Marsha / Davis / Lockheed Martin
Uta / Dietrich / AIRBUS S.A.S. France
Manna / Domenico / Alenia Aeronautica SpA
Kevin / Elston / Vought Aircraft
Marjan / Hager / Honeywell
Jim / Hartman / Honeywell Aerospace
Andy / Iesalnieks / Rolls-Royce Corp.
Keith / Kastner / Cessna Aircraft
Frank / Lennert / The Boeing Company
Laurence / Potez / SAFRAN Group
Christian / Schwaminger / MTU Aero Engines
Steve / Wishnowski / Bombardier, Inc.
Shen / Yeh / Northrop Grumman
Other Participants/Members:
NAME / COMPANYRich / Balamut / Shiva Technologies
Corwyn / Berger / Bodycote Materials Testing, Inc.
Robert / Casey / Wyman-Gordon (Houston)
Deena / Crossmore / IMR Test Labs
Eric / Dirats / Dirats Labs
Bryan W. / Engel / ESCO Turbine Technologies - Syracuse
Niko V. / Gjaja / The M&P Lab
Mark / Grassi / Carpenter Technology Corp.
Paula / Greenough / Durkee Testing Laboratories
Bob / Haldane / Alcoa - Kitts Green
Mike / Higgins / STORK - SMT
Mark / Jonus / Stork Materials Technology
John / Low / Timet (Toronto, Ohio)
Jason / Martin / Spirit Aerosystems
Michael / Niedzinski / Alcan Aerospace
James / Owens / Sifco Forge Group
Len / Radys / Atlas Testing
Jim / Riley / Stork Materials Testing
Stephen / Roberts / Certified Alloy Products, Inc.
Steve / Ruoff / IMR Test Labs
Tetyana / Shmykevo / Praxair Surface Technologies
Byron J. / Skillings / Ladish Co., Inc.
Jeffry J. / Smith / Tensile Testing Metallurgical Laboratory
Larry / Somrack / NSL Analytical Services, Inc.
John / Tosi / PCC Airfoils
Margaret / Willis / Allvac Monroe
Kent / Young / Alcoa - Davenport Works
PRI Staff:
David K. / Luoni / Materials Testing Senior Staff Engineer1.2 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes
The minutes from the October 2005 meeting were approved.
2.0 RULES OF CONDUCT
The Chair and the Staff Engineer reviewed the rules of conduct for the Nadcap meetings.
3.0 MTL PROGRAM STATUS
The Staff Engineer presented the annual metrics report, detailing all metrics related to the Materials Testing program, including a summary of the data. This annual report is presented at the January Nadcap meeting.
4.0 CENTECH PRESENTATION
Centech presented the current status of their Proficiency testing program (PTP). The PTP Website has been revised and changes were made to the program based on feedback from the first round of testing. Centech is asking the Task Group to consider accepting the results for the laboratories that participate in their program instead of the Nadcap IPT program. The current program cannot respond to all Nadcap laboratories. Also, the remaining laboratories in the IPT program may not be large enough for a statistically valid program. Another key concern was the cost of PTP program vs. the cost of the IPT program.
5.0 CHEMICAL PROCESSING TESTING REQUIREMENTS
Solution Analysis and Corrosion testing requirements have been developed by the Chemical Processing (CP) Task Group. CP is auditing independent testing laboratories to these requirements, and is asking the Materials Testing Task Group to consider auditing to CP testing requirements.
Another request is to combine the corrosion testing requirements between the two groups into a single checklist.
The are two points to address:
1. Standardize requirements
2. Where independent checklists exist (corrosion), create Subteam to unify requirements.
ACTION ITEM: Laurence Potez requested the number of independent labs accredited by Chemical Processing to AC7108/4.
MOTION: Create a Subteam for the Strawman proposal to cover global requirements between Task Groups and for Inter-Task Group cooperation.
Yes = 16, No= 0, Abstain= 0
6.0 PRE-OPEN MEETING BUSINESS
MOTION: Vote to accept Marsha Davis (Lockheed) as a User Voting Member
Yes= 15, No=0, Abstain=0
MOTION: Vote to accept Manna Domenico (Alenia) as a User Voting Member
Yes=15, No=0, Abstain=0
ACTION ITEM: Need to define the Task Group vision; Was there a documented vision when the Task Group was begin?
MONDAY, JANUARY 23, 2006 – OPEN SESSION (AFTERNOON)
3.0 PROGRAM STATUS
The program status information was presented to the open session.
ACTION ITEM: Provide a comparison of the 2004 vs. the 2005 top 10 NCRs. What are the differences and why?
The efforts of the Task Group in 2006 must focus on reducing supplier cycle time and eliminating one cycle of responses in the process. The AS7101 revision should reduce errors and misconceptions. Also, the checklists must be revised to include the explanation questions.
The specific areas of weakness for the auditors should be identified from supplier evaluations and NCR data.
7.0 AC7101/3 BALLOT COMMENTS/RESOLUTION
7.1 Paragraph 3
MOTION: Forward comments to AS7101 Sub-team – Comment found nonpersuasive.
Yea = 20, Nay = 0, Abstain = 0
Laurence Potez noted that this checklist section could possibly be removed and the testing matrix could be included as an Appendix.
7.2 Section 5.1 – Comment was found Non-persuasive.
Yea = 19, Nay = 1, Abstain = 3
TUESDAY, JANUARY 24, 2006 – OPEN SESSION
7.0 AC7101/3 BALLOT COMMENTS/RESOLUTION (CONTINUED)
7.3 Section 10.2
MOTION: Non-persuasive based on Standard requirements:
Yea = 23, Nay = 0, Abstain = 0
7.4 Section 11 - Reference question to Prime only meeting (Wednesday).
7.5 Section 11.3
MOTION: Find the comment non-persuasive - Yea = 17, Nay = 4, Abstain = 7
Note: The comment referenced the new ISO Creep testing standard; this was referred to the AS7101 subteam for incorporation into the next revision of the standard (AS7101), after which the AC7101/3 checklist can be revised. There was discussion regarding the addition of these requirements into the checklist now, before their inclusion into the standard.
7.6 Section 11.4
MOTION: No rewording was suggested so the comment is non-persuasive.
Yea = 20, Nay = 1, Abstain = 3
7.7 Section 11.5
MOTION: Reference to the AS7101 subteam –Yea = 11, Nay = 7, Abstain = 5
Note: The comment referenced the new revision of AMS 2750 (Rev. D) regarding the calibration of sensors; this comment was referred to the AS7101 subteam for incorporation into the next revision of the standard (AS7101), after which the AC7101/3 checklist can be revised. There was discussion regarding the addition of these requirements into the checklist now, before their inclusion into the standard.
7.8 Section 12
MOTION: Reference to the AS7101 subteam – Yea = 23, Nay = 0, Abstain = 3
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to contact Paul McCarthy and Ray Hill regarding the Rounding of Tensile results.
MOTION: Find the comment non-persuasive due to its being previously addressed by the Task Group (Pittsburgh Meeting) –Yea = 17, Nay = 2, Abstain = 8
8.0 JOINT HEAT TREAT/MATERIALS TESTING SUBTEAM
Recommendations: Remove information only questions from AC7101/5. The Heat Treat group is evaluating the remaining parts of the AC7101/3, AC7101/4, and AC7101/5 checklists for possible rewording. A draft from the Heat Treat group will be available in 2 weeks and will be provided to the Materials Testing TG for comments by mid-February.
Use the Heat Treat-developed AC7101/5 checklist for determining the flow of the audit checklist. A conference call will be scheduled following the mid-February issuance of the revised checklist.
9.0 AC7101/3 BALLOT COMMENTS/RESOLUTION (CONTINUED)
9.1 Section 12.4
AMMENDED MOTION: Find the comment non-persuasive due to not using National Standards and modify comments to reflect the Task Group resolution for paragraph 3 –Yea = 25, Nay = 1, Abstain = 0
9.2 Section 12.4.1 / 12.4.1.1 David Yates
Proposal: Must have test methods established for consistency for Nadcap – put together a table for Auditors to use for Accreditation methods specific to each recognized standard. Question for Primes: Should there be a default, base testing requirement?
MOTION: For the purposes of ballot resolution, if Standard methods are presented, reference these to the AS7101 subteam –Yea = 31, Nay = 0, Abstain = 1
9.3 Section 12.4.1 / 12.4.1.1
MOTION: Find the comment non-persuasive and forward it to the AS7101 subteam.
Yea = 14, Nay = 0, Abstain = 2
9.4 Section 12.5.1 c
MOTION: Find the comments non-persuasive due to AS7101, section 6.14.4.
Yea = 18, Nay = 1, Abstain = 2
9.5 Section 12.6.1 / 12.6.1.1 & 12.6.2 / 12.6.2.1
MOTION: Find the comments non-persuasive and forward them to the AS7101 Subteam –Yea = 21 Nay = 0, Abstain = 5
9.6 Section 13.1.3
MOTION: Comment was withdrawn. Reference the comment to the AS7101 Subteam
MOTION: Nominal gage length = nominal reduced section length.
Yea = 21, Nay = 0, Abstain = 7
9.7 Section 15.6.2
MOTION: Find the comments non-persuasive –Yea = 19, Nay = 2, Abstain = 5
Reference D. Yates’ comment to the AS7101 subteam.
Yea = 26, Nay = 0, Abstain = 3
9.8 For the last 3 comments:
MOTION: Reference these back to AS7101 Working Group for action in revising Calibration requirements and to include the review of both tables 2 and 3.
Yea = 28, Nay = 0, Abstain = 2
The summary table of comments is attached.
10.0 AS7101, APPENDIX D
MOTION: To reference to AS7101 Sub-team –Yea = 26, Nay = 0, Abstain = 1
11.0 “NEW” CRACK GROWTH
ACTION ITEM: Forward out revised requirements to the Team – Jim Hartman.
The “Old” AS7101 Globalization team was absorbed into the AS7101 Revision Teams. Move forward with the sub-teams.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni – to forward Testing Specification Matrix (Potez) to Section 2 Team.
All sub-teams must forward specification information to Ben Clark.
1. Correct Current information
2. Add Globalization
12.0 AS7101 SUB-TEAMS
Each Team should have a separate Charter.
- Need Master Charter – use each Section Leader on Master Team
ACTION ITEM: Uta to email Charter to David Luoni to distribute to Team members – February 1.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to set up conference call for all Primes the week of February 6 with Team Leaders and Keith.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to set up conference call with AMS 2750 Liaison Team – 3rd week of February.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to distribute final version of the test method chart to all roster members.
ACTION ITEM: Byron Skillings (Ladish), Corwyn Berger – provide a copy of the AC7006 Rev. F Draft.
13.0 AC7101/3 REVISED MATRICES
Two forms were presented: one with too much information, one with little information.
1. Useful to Auditors
2. Useful to Reviewers
3. Useful to Labs
The Task Group formally recognizes that the Matrices are not providing valuable info, and recommend that the AS7101 sub-teams study the possibility of eliminating the Matrices.
14.0 BEIJING AGENDA
Only one Supplier Voting Member will be present so no open Task Group business will be conducted. An introduction to the MTL Task Group and its activities should be included.
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 25, 2006 - CLOSED SESSION
15.0 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY
MTL – Staff Engineer to observe at least one audit with each auditor in 2006.
ACTION ITEM: The SE is to provide an annual review of all NCRs from the previous year for Auditor consistency and requirements problems, to be discussed at the April Meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Add information in NCSI presentation noting that eAuditNet has lists of the Top 10 NCRs for Materials Testing.
ACTION ITEM: Lisa Zajacs to add Top 10 NCR information to new Supplier Introductory Letter.
Primes that are performing observation audits please document your comments. The Supplier Feedback Form could possibly be used as a guide.
ACTION ITEM: SE to provide a list of scheduled MTL audits updated to the updated Primes mailing list.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to forward 2005 NCR results to AS7101 Sub teams.
16.0 MTL TASK GROUP – STRAWMAN PROPOSAL
What is the mandate of the MTL Task Group? This information is needed by the subteam to develop the Strawman proposal.
Timing for presenting Strawman proposal to MTL Task Group – March 1, 2006.
Strawman Development Team: Frank Lennert, Andy Iesalnieks, Laurence Potez, Marsha Davis, Keith Kastner.
ACTION ITEM: SE to setup Conference call week of Febraury 13.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to provide the Charter (if available) for MTL Task Group.
ACTION ITEM: David Luoni to provide Charter information for Chem. Processing, Welding, Coatings, Composites, Fasteners, and Heat Treat.
17.0 CENTECH PTP PROGRAM
This is a GE, SNECMA, and Airbus PTP Program. The request was made to review the MTL Task Group’s acceptance of the PTP program instead of the IPT program. The requirement for participating in the IPT program is documented in NTGOP-001, Appendix II.
ISSUES: Nadcap/PRI is a not for profit business. The Centech program is very expensive. Does the Task Group go to a profit making company?
The MTL Task Group defines the requirements for any proficiency testing program. The purpose is to use Centech as a tool to accomplish the goal of Aerospace interlaboratory testing.
The AS7101 Subteam for Appendix E must establish the protocol for acceptable proficiency testing programs.