Regis University COM400
Racism
Sadikia:
I get back to what Ken said about it. It's fine what we're doing in this context. And, yes, we are leading the way. But, here, we are doing what the rest of society needs to be able to do. When you talk about the stereotype of this country-- We have all this diversity here, yet the rest of the world sees it as a white, male-dominated type culture. That's what they identify to. We really have to deal-- When you talk about: Are we racist? We have to deal with the racism that has been institutionalized. We really have to find a way to affect the legislation at its core before we're really going to be able to see the change. I can't say that I'm a recovering racist. I'm trying to recover from the oppression of racism. I'm trying to be free. I'm trying to walk in it. I'm trying to encourage other people to do that. But for me to say that I'm a racist when I have no power to oppress anyone, I think that that is-- The definition has to be, you know, kind of flushed out. The racism that I'm talking about is the racism that has those forces and powers to oppress other people.
Carlos: I come from an interracial family. My mother's Mexican; My dad's Indian. And they were from the southwest. And there was-- Growing up, there was a lot of racism between the Mexicans and the Indians. In fact, my mother and father had to elope. They ran away to get married because my mother's family looked down on my dad's family - that she was marrying down - that there was some sort of thing about Mexicans being better than Indians or if you're a breed. If you were half and half, that's the [DMZ], the no person's land of ethnicity. But there was definitely-- I could argue-- I mean, I'm just playing, maybe, devil's advocate-- I don't know-- maybe not. I'm a Gemini, so I can be schizophrenic too and argue against myself. But, you know, I could say that my birth was midwifed in this tension between-- And, incidentally, I didn't meet my Mexican grand-- They wouldn't accept my mother until I was seven years old because of this deep-seeded-- They excluded her. They banished her. She married somebody lower. Is that racism? Is that power, privilege, and-- not in the traditional sense but in a sense of excluding or permitting or even saying you're part of this circle or drawing a line and saying, No. Based on you being Indian, no. You marry within the culture. You should marry a good Mexican man. Keep the blood pure. You don't want to make another Mestizo. You don't want Indio. You don't want to do that, you know? So I don't--
Sadikia:
Is that racial pride, or is that racism? And is that sometimes a byproduct of being in a racist society, where you-- The hierarchy begins with: you are white; you're all right. No. So (inaudible) until you get black, and you stay back. I mean, you even have within the African-American and the black race the hierarchy based on if you're lighter complexion or what not. And you can call that colorism or what not. But I think when you really-- Just for me, racism - that power element has to come with it. And I just don't have the power to oppress nor the desire, though, to oppress to the point where all of this disparity and inequality-- I mean, white males make five times more than I do. There is no way, as a-- in my social location, that I have that kind of power to, you know-- to say, Well, I don't like white people, and so, therefore, I can impose this or that on them. You know. So, I mean, we can do the semantics back and forth or what not, but I don't think if someone has racial pride that that can be interpreted as racism.
Raymond:
Carlos, what's the relationship between racial pride and racism, then?
Carlos:
I think when we're talking about American racism-- I think racism, in general, is who has the power. Who is the conqueror?
Sadikia:
That's what I think.
Carlos:
And, in America, location, location, location. In America, I am not the racist. But I do have racism coursing through my blood because I come from a Mexican culture. Now I go to Mexico, and I'm the racist. Why? Because I have been taught to look down at the Indio. So there's racism right there. Now, I am in the power dynamic. Now, I am in the position of power, if you go to Mexico. If you go to Brazil, the same thing - lighter skinned Brazilians are the ones that are inflicting racism on the darker ones. So I think racism-- We're all racist. We either-- not necessarily are active racism-- racists. But I think we have racism coursing through our societies, which they themselves have bled into our culture. And the culture has been passed on to us. So I think we have elements of racism, but not all of us are active racists.
Jim:
Well, I think that-- I mean, this is a great conversation, because, as the white guy, then, by some definition, I might be the only racist in the room, because, if it's about the control, then that would eliminate me pretty quickly, because I'm not in control of a lot either. But that sense-- I think all of us can say-- I mean, I look at that in light of some well-known actors recently who made statements, and they were labeled racists because of the statements not because of the persecution or the control or the domination or anything else. It was what came out of their mouth that made them that way. And so I think for all of us-- We can all have a little of that in us at times, when stuff comes out because of pain or because of whatever. I could see under our breath, even, a person of color saying, Well, it's typical of the whites or typical of that white person or whatever. It would still be a little of that, I think, by definition of how I understand racism. It could be by that definition. But, in terms of having to be in control, I'd say the average white guy doesn't think they're in control of a lot either. Now, if I'm a boss and I have the ability to hire or fire, one of the things that I've-- Having come from an organization that really prides itself in racial reconciliation, one of the things I learned from everyone on staff is that if you're going to-- If you're in a place of leadership and can make a difference, the best place to make a difference is allow opportunity for people of color. And so, on the last two staffs that I've been involved with where I could hire, I made it a point to provide opportunity.
Back to your question earlier about faith being a part of this, if I look at my faith and those that are in faith in churches all over America, the most segregated hour is Sunday morning, because we are not diverse. And we've had this-- wrestled with this question about this at church. And the point that we keep making is that we've go no one on the platform that's of color. In other words, we've given them no opportunities to be a part of what we're doing. And I think that's part of-- This is where-- Then, back to faith, my theology says that I believe honestly in the collective IQ - that God made us all different for a purpose. And He gave us gifts and experiences and personalities for the benefit of others. And, if we don't open up opportunity or if we don't get in the same room, then it's going to be difficult to understand.
I can remember being in a car-- Now, my family, for the most part, is all from the south, Georgia. I can remember being in a car with my granddad, who was lost, pulling up to an African-American guy and calling him over by using the "N" word. Now, I'm from southern California. I'm ducking. I'm like getting out of the way in case he's shooting back because of what was said. And the individual walked over and gave directions. And I thought, Wow, that was wild, because, in southern California, they'd have walked away or cussed you out or moved on. But, yet, in that culture, that was fine. So I grew up with that. And, then, I find it interesting; I have tried so hard to kind of prevent that from being put on to my boys. Yet, I'm listening to them have a conversation about the comedians and the hip hop and all this. And they're using words that we've never used in our family because they have now heard it from an African-American and think it's safe because of their conversation - that it's okay now. And I'm sitting there going, Well, wait a second. You don't have permission yet to use that word anywhere, let alone out there in sort of the public, or you're going to find out that it's not so acceptable.