ELECTRONICS
FEBRUARY/MARCH 2011
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
FEBRUARY 28 - MARCH 4, 2011
Hotel Fira Palace Barcelona
BARCELONA SPAIN
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
Tuesday, March 1, 2011 to Friday, March 4, 2011
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Electronics Task Group (ETG) was called to order at 11:00 a.m., 01-Mar-11.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME / COMPANY NAME* / Eric / Lacourt / Thales
* / Nathalie / Lefevre / SAFRAN
* / Eddie / Lewis / Goodrich
John / Mastorides / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Scott / Meyer / Goodrich Corporation
* / Philippe / Pons / Airbus / Chairperson
Norberto / Roiz / EADS-CASA
* / Richard / Rowe / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Richard / Rumas / Honeywell Aerospace / Secretary
* / Suzanne / Steketee / Ball Aerospace & Technologies
* / Barbara / Waller / Raytheon Co.
Steve / Wells / Goodrich Corporation
* / Dewey / Whittaker / Honeywell Aerospace / Vice Chairperson
Grzegorz / Wryk / Goodrich Corporation
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME / COMPANY NAME* / Cristiano / Bazzi / Somacis
Paul / Comer / Graphic Plc
* / Stephan / Gehrke / Meggitt SA
Gildas / Gourlaouen / TECHCI
Jean-Marie / Lemiere / Elvia PCB
Jean-Francois / Mahe / SELHA
Pablo / Martinez / North American Interconnect
Oliver / Moutray / Lyncolec Ltd
Thomas / Schuabe / SGS
Hans / Van Eekelen / Fokker Elmo
Kees / Van der Schoor / Fokker Elmo
PRI Staff Present
James / BennettBill / Dumas
Richard Rumas will be the Secretary going forward. Note that there is an open RAIL item related to this.
Scott Meyer will be the Timekeeper.
1.2 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes / RAIL Review
Motion made by Scott Meyer and seconded by Suzanne Steketee approve the minutes as written from the October 2010 meeting. Motion Passed
All open RAIL items reviewed. The following RAIL items are of note:
· PRI Staff did not send out latest drafts, metrics, etc. before the meeting. The only one that would have been sent was the PRI Staff report.
· Suzanne Steketee to send the checklist excel template to Jim Bennett by 08-Mar-11 to close out this action.
· Richard Rumas’ action on finalization of AC7121 modifications pushed out to March 2011. Formatting to be done and sent out by 25-Mar-11 for pre ballot comments. Ballot hopefully will be sent out 29-Apr-11.
· AC7119 actions related to completion of Rev. E were pushed out.
· Formal request to the Nadcap Management Council (NMC) regarding Subscribers involvement in the ETG is not done yet. Still open and pushed back to 31-Mar-11.
· J-STD-001ES released December 2010, so action item to create slash sheet can be started. Suzanne Steketee and John Mastorides to start this action.
· AC7120 actions pushed out as well since Rev. B ballot not issued.
· Standard email template for auditors contacting suppliers prior to the audit is still open. Jim Bennett is still waiting on one auditor to provide what they provide to the supplier. This will allow starting this item in earnest. It was agreed that it would be nice if the NTGOP-001 is updated to capture this.
2.0 SUBSCRIBING USER DISCUSSION – CLOSED
Audit 138033 – reviewed (AC7120).
Motion made by Suzanne Steketee and seconded by Barbara Waller to remove questions related to max time between soldering and cleaning. Motion Passed
ACTION ITEM: AC7120 sub-team to remove questions related to max time between soldering and cleaning. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
Discussed proposed online chat tool from Heat Treat. We will table further discussion due to other higher priorities.
Discussed outsourced processes. ETG will continue to support N/A for conformal coating. A checklist could be developed, but this is not a priority now.
Discussed max NCRs per Audit Days in NOP-011 Mode B, based on 2010 data.
Motion made by Scott Meyer and seconded by Suzanne Steketee to leave the Mode B numbers the same for 2011. Motion Passed
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to determine if the number of checklist questions answered N/A during each audit is readily available to analyze by the Task Group. This can be a sanity check on our Mode B numbers. (DUE DATE: 04-Mar-11)
· PRI REPORT/RAIL – OPEN
Bill Dumas is the new ETG Staff Engineer. Future PRI goals are to have Bill become an ETG Auditor and a delegated Staff Engineer.
Following the October 2010 Auditor Conference, one ETG Auditor is no longer auditing for the Task Group. ETG will need to fill this position to have four total auditors.
Metrics, as part of PRI report, were presented by Jim Bennett. Short discussions on observer audits and the ETG Newsletter took place. The Newsletter, going forward, will be available before each meeting.
Newsletter ideas: Suzanne Steketee suggested a Space Addendum article (Richard Rumas volunteered); Rich Rowe suggested an article on identifying recognized IPC training companies (no one volunteered for this); a supplier article that did not make it into last Newsletter will be added into this one (IEC Electronics).
ACTION ITEM: Volunteers to complete their newsletter articles. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: Richard Rumas to ask Dave Torp at IPC to be allowed to publish IPC items and updates going forward on the ETG Newsletter. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
Also the Task Group discussed the slow process of checklist changes. Philippe brought up his opinion that more frequent changes are more desirable than waiting 2 years for a big change.
· METRICS REVIEW 2010 – OPEN
AC7119, AC7120, AC7121 metrics were reviewed by the Task Group. High hitting NCRs were reviewed and questions updated if necessary. All checklist drafts reviewed for existence of changes already based on qualified no’s and other issues. Note: AC7120 Question 39.4.3 – N/A was added to draft of B. Task Group was not sure why.
ACTION ITEM: AC7120 sub-team to address why N/A was added and if want to keep come up with audit note to explain when N/A can be used (reference checklist paragraph 39.4.3). (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to sanitize data and send out to sub-teams to review and action. Sanitization so suppliers can participate. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team leads to update supplier symposium presentations with this data for the next meeting in London. (DUE DATE: 11-Jun-11)
NOP-011 Mode B failure criteria was reviewed for entire Task Group. No changes are being made for 2011.
Question: why are 5 days showing when ETG audits are only 4 days? Possible answer: a satellite facility may require an additional day.
5.0 CHECKLIST VISION – OPEN
Discussion to reiterate with Bill Dumas that the NMC Checklist Vision updates presented at the last meeting did not clarify the situation. Bill attempted to clarify to the Task Group his understanding, which was appreciated. The checklist revisions will continue as planned, assuming that we are currently meeting the checklist vision.
Bill brought up a suggestion to remove N/A options if they can’t have Compliance Assessment Guidance (CAGs) associated with them. The Task Group is already on this route with the current updates.
Dewey Whittaker voiced his concerns over ballot comments submitted after technical discussions have already occurred at meetings and teleconference calls. Ballots can be taken at meetings as per Nadcap procedure NIP 4-01 – notification needs to be made two weeks in advance of the meeting. If future similar issues occur, this is a possible route to solve the issue. This may, however, be difficult to do this with more than one checklist per meeting.
Environmental question consolidation template prepared by Suzanne Steketee and Rich Rowe was discussed. The proposed format was accepted in principal for which procedural questions will be consolidated but not compliance.
ACTION ITEM: Richard Rowe and Suzanne Steketee to continue action to complete consolidation activity. (DUE DATE: 4-Jun-11)
ACTION ITEM: Bill Dumas to review all minutes from 2010 to ensure all Action Items identified in the minutes are on the RAIL. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
6.0 AC7119 – OPEN
Discuss open ballot comments starting from paragraph 24.2. Resolution of comments were captured in the comment tracking spreadsheet.
ACTION ITEM: Bill to add CAGs for all NA’s in the AC7119 checklist. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: Dewey and Bill to review all AC7119 audits to determine if “manual scrubbing” questions in section 33 (final finishes) are ever answered anything but N/A. If answered nothing but N/A, then the Task Group will consider removing those questions. (DUE DATE: 31-Dec-11)
ACTION ITEM:. More generally than the previous RAIL item, Dewey and Bill to review all AC7119 audits to determine questions that have always been answered N/A for possible removal. (DUE DATE: 31-Dec-11)
Richard Rumas brought up the fact that we are removing some detail in questions that is already in existence in the section title. For example: all “immersion tin” verbiage is removed from questions in the Immersion Tin section. However, this makes it more difficult in reviewing audit report packages as the NCRs only quote the questions, not the section titles. Other Task Group members also viewed this as a possible difficulty. An action item will be added to review this at a future meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Task Group to discuss in London for Auditor Conference in Pittsburgh. Add this specific issue to the agenda: ensure auditor writes NCR descriptively enough to allow no reference to the checklist being necessary. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: Poorly written NCR list that Staff Engineer has already compiled to be added to Auditor Conference material. PRI Staff to add to Auditor Conference agenda in June and will hand over information to add to specific training material. (DUE DATE: 03-Mar-11 and 06-Jun-11)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team to look at, quickly, adding an “if required by customer” question in section 17 and 36 since none exists but the TG feels that one is necessary. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: PRI / SE to change all “must” to “shall” in the document before ballot. (DUE DATE: 03-Mar-11)
ACTION ITEM: AC7119 sub-team to review AC7119/2 title to ensure it matches with new revision of IPC-6013. (DUE DATE: 06-Jun-11)
ACTION ITEM:.AC7119 sub-team to review /1, /2, /3 to ensure questions related to IPC specs are covered and then can delete from core checklist at next revision (i.e. F). (DUE DATE: 06-Jun-11)
All AC7119 comments closed.
ACTION ITEM: PRI to do final formatting and ballot to go out for 45-day letter ballot. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
7.0 AC7121 – OPEN
As per the discussion and resolution in section 5.0 on environmental (i.e. Facilities) question consolidation – the Task Group decision is to defer this type of action to the next revision so that Rev. A can get out without further delay.
Richard Rumas presented on behalf of Labarge their presentation on the pros and cons of Nadcap mandating IPC-620 certifications. Labarge was not present. The Task Group was not compelled by the argument against changing the current course. The Task Group did bring up a good point which may not have been considered: the CIT can issue IPC certificates if the training already performed at the supplier meets or exceeds IPC requirements and the testing is done per IPC requirements. In other words, the cost impact could be reduced by using the existing training and just issuing the test. The Task Group did agree that particular modules may contain requirements which may not apply and could add cost (such as the module on crimping which also includes IDC). Labarge will have the opportunity to comment on both the pre-ballot and ballot in the future.
ACTION ITEM:. Richard to provide feedback to Labarge on the results of the meeting and discuss further with them. (DUE DATE: 11-Mar-11)
Fokker Elmo and NAI were in attendance and allowed to give feedback. Of note:
· Both suppliers were encouraged to attend IPC meetings in the future to get involved at that level.
· During NAI’s recent audit, the auditor asked for J-STD-001 and IPC-620 certificates to meet the training requirements questions. The training certificate requirements were specifically discussed at Auditor Conference in 2010 and this was specifically asked to the auditors. Their interpretation of the checklist matched the Task Group’s, so certificates were not required. This is contrary to what happened on the NAI audit.
ACTION ITEM: Add this issue to be discussed at Auditor Conference presentation discussion in London. J-STD-001 certificates not required and will never be required for AC7121. Also, IPC-620 certificates not needed currently. (DUE DATE: 06-Jun-11)
· Auditor Conference topic: Are there any issues with the number of sections and using eAuditNet? Bill brought up issue that each section is on one page in eAuditNet, and for AC7121 there would be 73 pages (since 73 sections in AC7121).
ACTION ITEM: Add this question to Auditor Conference presentation. If a problem, then get PRI staff to reprogram page breaks in eAuditNet. (DUE DATE: 06-Jun-11)
8.0 AC7120 – OPEN
No further open comments to be discussed. There was a short discussion on Aerospace Quality Systems (AQS) questions that are being removed. Existing RAIL actions on getting the ballot ready still apply and the sub-team leader Ed Lewis will be working to close those actions.
ACTION ITEM: AC7120 sub-team and PRI Staff to review before sending out for ballot, after which ballot to be sent out. (DUE DATE: 31-Mar-11)
9.0 MEETING CLOSURE ITEMS – OPEN
Paul Comer has now been at two meetings. See motion below. Paul will fill out paperwork for PRI.
Motion made by Dewey Whittaker and seconded by Richard Rumas to allow Paul to be a Supplier Voting Member (SVM). Motion Passed
John Mastorides of Honeywell Aerospace has now been at two meetings. See motion below. John will fill out paperwork for PRI.