May 2008doc.: IEEE 802.11-08/0571r1

IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs

Minutes of the IEEE P802.11 Full Working Group
Date: 2008-05-12
Author(s):
Name / Company / Address / Phone / email
Stephen McCann / Nokia Siemens Networks Roke Manor / Old Salisbury Lane, Romsey, Hampshire, SO51 0ZN, UK / +44 1794 833341 /

IEEE 802.11 Plenary Meeting – Session #109

Hyatt Regency Riverfront, Jacksonville, Florida, USA

May 11th-16th, 2008

IEEE 802 Wireless Opening Plenary, Monday 12thMay 2008

Note: These are copied from the minutes 15-08-0285-00-0000-wg-minutes-from-Jacksonville-may08.doc

Monday, 12 May 2008

8:15802.11, 802.15, 802.18, 802.20, 802.21, and 802.22 Chairs called the joint meeting to order. IEEE 802.15 attendance is included as Annex A (15-08-0285)

Announcements:

  • Session is being run by “Face to Face Events Inc”
  • Attendance will be collected via the IMAT

Straw Poll of new attendees: 11

IEEE patent policy

802.15 WG chair displayed the five slides explaining patent policy and informed the attendees that additional information could be found on the patcom web site.

Chair asked participants to identify patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) and/or the holder of patent claim(s)/patent application claim(s) that the participant believes may be essential for the use of that standard, there were no responses.

8:23Financial report by John Barr, (15-08-263-00)

  • 14 Mar 08 balance was $222,547.51
  • 11 May 08 balance was $197,911.85
  • Domain name registration -$20.00
  • Taipei status:
  • 361 attendees
  • Net deficit $24,636
  • Jacksonville
  • Budget estimate $216,200
  • Registration Income: $231,570

8:31Wireless announcements:

Wireless Network Updates by Rick Alfvin (15-08-283-01)

  • Newton.events.ieee.org (docs and attendance links)
  • IEEE.1x is available

IMAT by Christina Sahr ()

  • To get an IEEE web account and follow directions
  • Enter activity profile in myProject
  • Register with IMAT
  • Uses IEEE web account
  • Register with IMAT once per week

8:30Review Interim meetings

  • 7-12 SeptHiltonWaikoloaVillage, Big Island
  • 18-23 January 2009, HyattCenturyPlaza, Los Angeles, CA, USA,
  • 10-15 May 2009, Fairmont Queen Elizabeth, Montreal, CA
  • 20-25 September 2009, HiltonWaikoloaVillage, Big Island, HI, USA
  • 7-22 Jan or 16-21 May 2010 Pacific Rim location
  • 12-17 Sep 2010, HiltonWaikoloaVillage, Big Island, HI, USA

8:35Task Group Updates

  • 802.11 (Agenda – 08/449r2)

WNG: call for topics – multi-radio coexistence

VHT SG: working on PAR and 5C

TGaa: Video Transport Settings is just beginning

IMT adhoc: planning through 2008

Other TGs: comment resolution

802.15

WNG: one presentation

TG3c: completing drafting towards letter ballot

TG4c: letter ballot completed with 100% approval

TG4d: completing draft towards letter ballot in July

TG4e: defining terms and draft CFP

TG5: Going to recirculation

TG6 (BAN): finalizing application matrix

RFID SG: move process forward

TerraHz IG: looking for opportunities

VLC SG: defining basic elements in PAR

NAN IG: just started looking at Neighborhood Area Networking

802.18

  • 60 GHz
  • Hearing Aid change
  • Draft CFC for Q4 ITU

802.20

Review and resolve sponsor ballot comments from recirculation

Development of PARs for future projects of 802.20

802.21

Wrapping up comment resolutions from Sponsor Ballot

Two new SGs security signaling in handover, multi radio power conservation management

802.22

  • Recirc on 802.22.1

8:51 joint meeting adjourned

IEEE 802.11Opening Plenary, Monday 12thMay 2008

Presiding chair: Bruce Kraemer (Marvell) opened the meeting at 09:08 ET

Jon RosdahlCSR

Adrian StephensIntel

Stephen McCannNokia Siemens Networks GmbH & Co KG

There are 211 voting members of IEEE 802.11

13potential

37nearly

153aspirants

  1. Attendance
  2. The chair then asked for those attending for the first time, 3 responded out of a total of 103 people in the room.
  3. Attendance (together with affiliations) at this meeting is shown in Annex A.
  4. Approve/modify joint opening agenda(11-08-0449r2)
  5. The graphic has been updated since yesterday with several meeting slot changes.
  6. Chair: Any modifications
  7. Q: Can I move the TGy closing report on Wednesday
  8. Chair: Yes, of course.
  9. No objection to the approval of the agenda
  10. March 2008 Minutes (11-08-0428r0)
  11. Review and approve joint minutes from theOrlando, March 2008meeting.
  12. Q: Please can we change the end date to 21st March.
  13. Chair: Yes.
  14. Chair: Any objection to approving the March 2008 minutes with this change.
  15. Following neither discussion nor dissent these minutes were approved by unanimous consent.
  16. Minutes will be revised to 11-08-0428r1
  17. Financials (11-08-0573r0)
  18. Jon Rosdahl (Vice-Chair)
  19. Presented various issues with the current treasury.
  20. No questions
  21. Policies and Procedures
  22. The vice-chair (Jon Rosdahl) presented the P&Ps including the new PatCom (Patent Policy) highlights slide. Please note that these PatCom slides were updated in March 2008.
  23. Please review these slides for all current procedures and information together with:
  24. Patent FAQ -
  25. LoA Form -
  26. Call for essential Patents
  27. The vice chair (Jon Rosdahl) called for essential patents and there were none.
  28. No questions or statements were made.
  29. Chair: Please note that all these rules only apply to groups with PARs
  30. Affiliation, Anti-Trust and Ethics
  31. The following slides were presented by the WG chair:
  32. Affiliation
  33. If you do not provide your affiliation then your rights can be withdrawn. Please see: for further information.
  34. Anti-Trust
  35. Please note the following anti-trust statements
  36. Ethics
  37. Please note the following ethics statements
  38. No questions about any of this.
  39. Interim Meetings
  40. The next meeting is in the Hyatt Regency, Denver, Colorado in July 2008. Registration is now available: :
  41. Note about past WG chair
  42. Chair: please note that Stuart Kerry is not able to attend this week. There was going to a presentation which will now be postponed until July 2008.
  43. Officer Appointments (11-08-0568r0)
  44. Various TG/SG appointments will be made later this week.
  45. Chair: However, I would like to appoint various other positions as stated in 11-08-0568r0
  46. Chair: Please note that there are also a few new activities this week, so that some strange terms will be present in the agenda. However, some of these new committees are required to move forward:
  47. JTC1 (Jesse Walker)
  48. IETF (Dorothy Stanley, although nothing this week)
  49. 16 L (Dorothy Stanley, IEEE 802.16 co-existenceliaison)
  50. IMT-A (now assigned to Darwin Engwer)
  51. Any objection to any of these appointments
  52. None seen
  53. Publicity
  54. Presented by the secretary (Stephen McCann).
  55. There is not much happening, but there have been some unsolicited emails from journalists. A meeting will be announced if something needs to be discussed and approved.
  56. Timelines
  57. Will be updated by the secretary towards the end of the week Please can all sub group chairman send timeline information to the secretary before Thursday evening.
  58. Status of all groups (11-08-0547r0)
  59. This is a new document which summarizes the status of all the groups
  60. Chair: Please note that Richard Paine(TGk chair) is not at this meeting
  61. IEEE 802.11s requires a secretary
  62. IEEE 802.11T plan to withdraw its PAR this week.
  63. IEEE 802.11aa is a new task group this week.
  64. VHT SG is producing 2 PARs this week, which will therefore require 2 nominated chairs.
  65. Technical Editor (11-08-0559r0). Please note editor’s meeting at 07:00 on Tuesday morning.
  66. Chair: Any more presentations for WNGSC. There is currently 1 presentation.
  67. IMT-A will probably finish its activities this week.
  68. Please note that ARC (Architecture Standing Committee) now has an initial document 11-08-0575r0
  69. Vice Chairs Report (11-08-0513r0)
  70. Please note these slides about other issues such as:
  71. Network
  72. The network appears to be working and no problems have been noted
  73. There is free internet access from the Hyatt guest rooms
  74. Membership summary
  75. There are about 211 voters at the moment, with a net loss of 49 people since the last meeting.
  76. The vice-chair (Adrian Stephens) showed a summary of the ballot response rate for LB 126.
  77. Please do not wait until the end of each letter ballot to vote, and please remember that if you miss 2 out of 3 letter ballots you will loose your voting rights.
  78. Q: Regarding re-circulation ballots, if you don’t vote on the first time, you can vote a later point.
  79. A: I think you would only have 1 strike against you. But this needs to be checked.
  80. Q: I don’t think that is right.
  81. A: The pool is fixed at the first letter ballot. so its only those people who can re-vote. Indeed if you loose you voting rights, you can still vote on the re-circulation ballots, if you are in the original voting pool.
  82. Attendance
  83. Please note the slides about the attendance procedures and if you have any problems , please go and see Christina Sahr (IEEE)
  84. If you change your address or affiliation, please let the vice chair (Adrian Stephens) know as soon as possible.
  85. The attendance system and letter ballots are now about 80% automated, as opposed to 30% as it was in previous meetings. Please note that there are errors in the database, which are being updated.
  86. The web site will be gradually updated, with frames being removed.
  1. Dominance Report
  2. This issue was mentioned at the end of the March 2008 meeting.
  3. There is currently a draft document which will be reviewed by Paul Nikolich (IEEE 802 chair).
  4. This task is ongoing and will be discussed further at the July 2008 meeting.
  1. Any Other Business
  2. None
  3. Meeting recessed at 10:01ET.

Wednesday, 19May 2008

IEEE 802.11 Mid Week Plenary

Presiding chair: Bruce Kraemer (Marvell) opened the meeting at 10:32 ET.

123people present.

  1. Approve/modify joint opening agenda(11-08-0449r4)
  2. Taken items from Friday and moved them to today’s agenda, after the liaison reports.
  3. Please note that all TG election positions have to be ratified by the 802 ExCom.
  4. Following neither discussion nor dissent the agenda was approved by unanimous consent.
  5. Policies and procedures
  6. Please note that this meeting is still operating under Monday’s P&P rules.
  7. No questions about this.
  1. Call for Essential Patents
  2. Call for essential patents
  3. No items raised.
  1. CAC
  2. Reminder about 19.30 meeting on Thursday
  1. Attendance Recording(11-08-513r3)

21.1.Vice chair (Adrian Stephens). New attendance system appears to be fine.

21.2.The link for all documents is

21.3.Please look at document 11-08-0513r3 for some update information about the attendance and document systems.

21.4.Q: Is there a self service option to maintain email addresses?

21.5.A: Yes, but I’m not sure how to do it myself yet.

  1. Other Announcements

22.1.Chair: I’d just like to mention that Menzo Wentink is a voting member

22.2.ARC standing committee

22.3.There will be a new reflector for this group in due course, probably in about 1 week’s time.

  1. Liaisons

23.1.802.18 : Radio Regulatory Tag(11-08-545r0)

23.1.1.Did some work on the IMT-A issue and members may be interested in this, document 11-08-0624r0.

23.1.2.This week 802.18 has been working with 802.15

23.1.3.No questions

23.2.802.19 (11-08-0556r0)

23.2.1.Did this not meet this week, but there is a report of teleconference calls, since the March 2008 meeting.

23.2.2.There is a typo in the slide set and it will be updated.

23.2.3.No questions

23.3.802.21

23.4.No liaison at this time.

23.5.Chair: Is there any objection to appointing Clint Chaplin as new liaison officer to IEEE 802.21

23.6.No objections

23.7.In addition, Clint would like to request moving this liaison report to Friday’s plenary

23.8.Wi-Fi Alliance

23.8.1.Andrew Myles (Wi-Fi Alliance Chair)

23.8.2.Brief update on a few items:

23.8.2.1.Certification of 11n is in preparation

23.8.2.2.Public safety group, including use of Wi-Fi in 4.9GHz band

23.8.2.3.Wireless network management group, which is related to 11k and 11v

23.8.2.4.Next face to face meeting is in Austin in a couple of weeks time.

23.8.3.No questions

23.9.Bluetooth

23.9.1.No report

23.10.IETF(11-08-0394r0)

23.10.1.Nothing much, so just a mention of the March 2008 report

23.11.ISO JTC1/SC 6 (11-08-0642r0)

23.11.1.Quite a few new activities regarding China’s request to liaise and discuss WAPI with IEEE 802.11.

23.11.2.Hence the JTC1 ad hoc will meet twice this week to discuss all the new ideas.

23.11.3.One of these is for Chinese delegates to attend IEEE 802.11 and participate.

23.11.4.Straw polls were completed for each of these separate items.

23.11.5.There may well be a tutorial in July on this point.

23.11.6.No questions

23.11.7.Chair: I think it would also be useful to inform ExCom of your work.

23.12.TIA

23.12.1.No report

23.13.3GPP (11-08-0629r0)

23.13.1.No questions

  1. WG11 officer Elections(11-08-641r2)

24.1.The document shows a summary of all nominations and appointments for all TGs and SGs:

Group / Chair / Vice Chair / Technical Editor / Secretary
K / Richard Paine / none / Joe Kwak / none
Mb / -OPEN- / none / none / none
N / Bruce Kraemer / Sheung Li / Adrian Stephens / -OPEN-
P / Lee Armstrong / none / Wayne Fisher / Susan Dickey
R / Clint Chaplin / none / William Marshall / none
S / Donald Eastlake / none / Anthony Maida / Stephen Rayment
T / Neeraj Sharma / none / Tom Alexander / -OPEN-
U / Stephen McCann / none / Necati Canpolat / Matthew Gast
V / Dorothy Stanley / none / Emily Qi / Robert Miller
W / Jesse Walker / none / Nancy Cam-Winget / -OPEN-
Y / Peter Ecclesine / none / Peter Ecclesine / Richard Kennedy
Z / Menzo Wentink / none / Menzo Wentink / Daniel Borges
AA / Ganesh Venkatesan / none / Hang Liu / -OPEN-
VHT / Eldad Perahia / none / none / none

24.2.All we have to do here is to approve TG/SG chairs, as the editors and secretaries are internal decisions.

24.3.In particular we need a TGmb chair and various secretary positions.

24.4.Q: How many amendments are we allowed before wehave to do a roll up.

24.5.A: We have 3 years in which to accumulate amendments, before a roll up is required.

24.6.Q: I understand the fame part of these positions, but not the fortune part.

24.7.Chair: That is for you as an individual to discover.

24.8.Chair: Are there any objections to appointing all the TG/SG chair and vice-chair positions on the screen

24.9.No objections.

  1. TGk, TGr and TGy motions

25.1.As these groups are not meeting this week, there are some items which require approval.

25.2.TGk

25.3.Move to approve TGk documents since the March 2008 plenary:

11-08-0376-00-000k-orlando-11k-crcommitee-meeting-minutes.doc

11-08-0392-00-000k-Mar19 2008 CR Committee Minutes.doc

25.4.

25.5.Moved: Joe Kwak, Second: Clint Chaplin

25.6.Unanimous

25.7.TGr

25.8.Move to approve the TGr minutes:

11-08-0382-00-000r-tgr-meeting-minutes-march-2008-session.doc of TGr of March 2008 .

25.9.Moved: Clint Chaplin, Second: Lee Armstrong

25.10.Unanimous

25.11.TGy #1

25.12.Move to approve TGy minutes of meetings and teleconferences from March 2008 plenary to today:

11-08-0359-00-000y-TGy March 2008 Plenary Meeting Minutes

11-08-0447-01-000y-TGy April 1st Telecon Minutes

11-08-0470-01-000y-TGy April 22nd Telecon Minutes

11-08-0488-00-000y-TGy April 29th Telecon Minutes

25.13.Moved: Peter Ecclesine, Second: TK Tan

25.14.Unanimous

25.15.TGy #2

25.16.Move to approve document 11-08/0481r1 May Sponsor Ballot Report as the report to the 802 Executive Committee (EC) on the requirements for approval to forward 802.11y to RevCom.

25.17.Moved: Peter Ecclesine, Second: Guido Hertz

25.18.Unanimous

  1. TGT PAR withdrawal(11-08-0544r0)

26.1.This presentation shows a form which describes why the PAR is being removed.

26.2.Move to request the 802.11 WG to request the 802 Executive committee to withdraw the PAR for P802.11.2 Recommended Practice for the Evaluation of 802.11 Wireless Performance

26.3.Moved Sasha Tolpon, Second Neeraj Sharma

26.4.Q: How far does this go up, before the decision can be made

26.5.Chair: I think it goes up to NesCom and I don’t think it will continue past the July meeting. Hence I’m not sure if TGT has any activity for the July meeting. I would like to ask Neeraj to continue as TGT chair, just in case something is required.

26.6.For: 66, against: 0, Abstain: 6 (Motion passes 100%)

  1. VHT motions

27.1.VHT Motion PAR <6 GHz

27.2.Believing the PAR & 5 Criteria contained in the documents below meet IEEE-SA guidelines, Request that this PAR & 5 Criteria for <6 GHz contained in 11-08/609r1 be posted to the ExCom agenda for WG 802 preview and ExCom approval (and subsequent submission to NesCom)

27.3.Moved on behalf of SG, Second Marc de Courville

27.4.(In SG: Move: Marc De Courville, Second: Darwin Engwer, Vote Y: 39, N: 3, Abs: 16)

27.5.

27.6.Dave Bagby: I speak against this motion. The project will consider a new MAC & PHY. The PAR does not mention MESH and IBSS operation. I think it should.

27.7.Andrew Myles: I speak against the motion. I support the next generation of Wi-Fi, but I think there are certain aspects which are immature:

27.7.1.The focus should be to use multi-dimensional attributes, as opposed to just throughput. The PAR only discusses 1Gbit/s and nothing else, which is not good enough for future Wi-Fi.

27.7.2.Technical feasibility. The technology for 802.11n was obvious; MIMO aggregation. In this case, there has been little talk about actual technologies. To provide a five fold increase in the 11n speed is difficult. The only current option is to double the current 11n bandwidth to 80 MHz channel operation, but this is really not a next wireless generation concept.

27.8.I think the PAR should be re-considered by the SG, before coming back to this WG.

27.9.Marc De Courville: I speak for this motion. I believe the PAR is ok.

27.9.1.I don’t think the PAR mentions 1 Gbit/s and it does address range and bandwidth together with spectrum management. It also addresses multi-user operation. Hence it does consider a system wide approach to the evolution of 802.11.

27.9.2.I don’t think it excludes MESH operation. IBSS is indeed excluded. It does include ESS operation. Just because it explicitly mentions infrastructure BSS, does not mean that it excludes MESH operation.

27.10.Dave Bagby. I speak against this motion. The intent is not to exclude MESH, but I’m not so sure. It would be better to sort out the wording to reflect this. This should be done by intent, but by PAR words. There was a rush today in VHT SG to get the PAR wording finished, but why cannot it not wait until Friday? Regarding both PARs and motions, we have two proposals for new MACs and PHYs. They have no restrictions as to what they want to do. Hence we’ll have 2 projects changing the MAC and PHY. This is a different situation to what we currently have (e.g. 1 MAC and alternative PHYs). This is new. These projects will produce intertwined MAC & PHYs, thus potentially dividing the market. It would be better to do one project, which works together at the same time. I believe that the study group should spend some more time harmonizing the 2 PARs.

27.11.John Barr. I speak for the motion. Please look at the documents, as I believe some of the other commenters are wrong. The PAR will not change the PHY or MAC. It suggests an amendment and remember that study groups do not design. A PAR is required to do this type of work. A task group is required to go forward.

27.12.Dave Bagby. I speak against the motion. An amendment can change what is there already and hence gives no guarantee as to what is already there. My understanding of VHT SG is that things will change.