Ron: Hi Fuhwei, James, I'm Just About to Start the Telco

Minutes of F2F, Jan. 10-11, 2008

Attendees:

Jan 10:

Name / Company / Status
Charlton Barreto / Adobe Systems / Group Member
Radu Preotiuc-Pietro / BEA Systems, Inc. / Group Member
Michael Rowley / BEA Systems, Inc. / Group Member
Frank Budinsky / IBM / Group Member
Kelvin Goodson / IBM / Group Member
Fuhwei Lwo / IBM / Group Member
Shawn Moe / IBM / Group Member
Blaise Doughan / Oracle Corporation / Group Member
hongbo yang / Primeton Technologies, Inc. / Group Member
James Hart / Rogue Wave Software / Group Member
Ron Barack / SAP AG* / Group Member
Henning Blohm / SAP AG* / Group Member
Stefan Buennig / SAP AG* / Group Member
Rainer Kerth / SAP AG* / Group Member
Ulf von Mersewsky / SAP AG* / Group Member
Christophe Boutard / Xcalia / Group Member
Francois Huaulme / Xcalia / Group Member
Eric Samson / Xcalia / Group Member
Jan 11:
Name / Company / Status
Charlton Barreto / Adobe Systems / Group Member
Radu Preotiuc-Pietro / BEA Systems, Inc. / Group Member
Michael Rowley / BEA Systems, Inc. / Group Member
Bryan Aupperle / IBM / Group Member
Frank Budinsky / IBM / Group Member
Fuhwei Lwo / IBM / Group Member
Shawn Moe / IBM / Group Member
Blaise Doughan / Oracle Corporation / Group Member
James Hart / Rogue Wave Software / Group Member
Ron Barack / SAP AG* / Group Member
Henning Blohm / SAP AG* / Group Member
Stefan Buennig / SAP AG* / Group Member
Rainer Kerth / SAP AG* / Group Member
Ulf von Mersewsky / SAP AG* / Group Member
Christophe Boutard / Xcalia / Group Member
Francois Huaulme / Xcalia / Group Member
Eric Samson / Xcalia / Group Member

Presentations/ Discussions:

10:00 - 10:30 / Roll Call, Discussion of Agenda
10:30 - 11:30 / Members introduce themselves, and companies present use-cases, and the role that SDO plays in each company’s product suite.
11:30 - 13:00 / Enhancements to Static SDOs (Ron, SAP)
Presentation at here
13:00 - 14:00 / Lunch
14:00 – 14:30 / Discussion of JSR-235 (Kelvin and Radu)
Formation of Expert Group can start. Interested parties should go to the JSR-235 web page on JCP.org, and join the expert group.
Calls will probably be on the Thursday at 11:30 Eastern Time, in place of the OSOA 2.1.1 call, starting (probably) January 24.
14:30 – 16:00 / Data Access Service (Eric, Xcalia)
Presentation not yet uploaded
Discussion focused on finding a more efficient format for change summary, perhaps with the help of object identities. In particular, XQuery Updates should be investigated.
16:00 – 18:00 / #5 XML & SDO (Frank, IBM)
Presentation at: here
A particular discussion point was the how SDO clients could obtain access to details of the source XSD (if any). In addition to the ideas already suggested in Frank’s presentation, Stefan brought up the possibility of using the SDO representation of the XSD.
: Demos
: #6:: #10 - 03:30 - 05:00: #9 - Interoperability with .Net (Cezar, BEA)
- HelperContexts and Type Management (Cezar, BEA)
05:00 - 06:00: #12 - Programming Language Support as determined by the TC.
(Bryan, IBM - will discuss C++ portion anyhow)
Friday January 11th
10:00 - 10:30 / Roll Call and Agenda
10:30 - 11:30 / Discussion of the “cast” methods, and SDO’s relation to JAXB and JPA, in particular focusing on potential inconsistencies that could be caused by the approach, and which limitations would be necessary on their use.
11:30 - 13:00 / Cleaning up/ Enhancing the SDO API (Blaise, Oracle)
Presentation not yet uploaded
13:00 - 14:00 / Lunch
14:00 - 15:30 / Relaxing Containment Requirements (Ron, SAP)
Presentation here
15:30 – 17:00 / Interoperability with .Net (Radu, Christophe)
Presentation of the BEA and XCalia’s solutions. Radu also discussed the mapping between ChangeSummary and ADONet. Christophe the C# and other CLR versions of the SDO library.
17:00 – 18:00 / Non-Java Language Support (Bryan)
Presentationhere
18:00 – 19:00 / The Road Forward

Resolutions

The use-case in which POJO classes (esp. JAXB & JPA) are converted to DataObjects is interesting, and the approach suggested in the presentation from Thursday morning should be persued. It should be fleshed out, especially in details when the "wrapped" object is modified, and for consistency with expected behavior, when the wrapped object is used.

The following issues and directions should be our priorities:

1. XML fidelity
2. The various "cast" concepts. This implies relaxing containment requirements
3. Finding a more efficient and better specified change summary format
4. (associated with 3) define a concept for key/ identity
5. Alignment with standards (JAXB, JPA) ... may be solved by (2)
6. HelperContext initialization/ bootstrapping
7. Acquiring metadata from java... Not only XSD->Static SDO but also Static SDO -> SDO metadata
8. Keeping in sync DAS WG

This list is not in any order, that is, the order does not imply priority. Item (2) should be addressed first.

Action Items

1. Charlton will present results of ECMAScript investigation to TC
2. Charlton volunteers to look at problem of manage spec text across core and bindings specs
3. Ron will work on a concrete proposal for the various HelperContext.cast methods. The proposal will be run past Frank before being submitted to the TC.
4. We need to discuss timelines.
5. We need to provide time on a call to discuss HelperContexts and management of types.

RAW TEXT:

ron: Hi Fuhwei, James, I'm just about to start the telco...

James Hart (Rogue Wave Software): OK, already dialed in

henning: US:1 866 203 4642

UK:+44 207 075 3204

DE:+49 69 210 869 100

CDN: 1 8888 201 142

with this participant code: 453637

Webex at https://sap.webex.com/sap , meeting no. 441 727 788, passwd: scascasca

henning: sorry. forget the dial-in. The webex is up though

James Hart (Rogue Wave Software): Can anyone point me to a link to the docs that speak about the C++ Annotations? I searched through the 2.1 and 2.1.1 C++ SDO docs and can only see references to annotations in the XSD, which seems like a different kind annotation than we are talking about.

anonymous morphed into Charlton Barreto (Adobe)

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): hello

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): anyone on the telcon?

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): dialed in, participant code above is incorrect

Room information was updated by: Charlton Barreto (Adobe)

US:1 866 203 4642

UK:+44 207 075 3204

DE:+49 69 210 869 100

CDN: 1 8888 201 142

with this participant code: 159475

ron: Motion: The use-case in which POJO classes (esp. JAXB & JPA) are converted to DataObjects is interesting, and the approach suggested in the presentation from Thursday morning should be persued. It should be fleshed out, especially in details when the "wrapped" object is modified, and for consistency with expected behavior, when the wrapped object is used.

ron: motion carried

ron: Meeting ajorned until 2:30 pm local time.

Bryan Aupperle: I'll dial in when you are ready to start back up.

ron: Motion: The HelperContext.cast() method deserves further investigation.

ron: I'm restarting the webex... be patient

ron: please try to rejoin the webex...

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): declarative languages binding to SDO is something I believe warrants further investigation

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): PHP SDO impl, leveraging C++ impl - mapping to PHP to SDO - see PHP.NET

Bryan Aupperle1 morphed into Bryan Aupperle

ron: Action Item: Franks should investigate PHP implementation

ron: As results of F2F... our priorities:

ron: 1. XML fidelity

ron: 2. The various "cast" concepts.

ron: 3. Finding a more efficient and better specified change summary format

ron: 4. (associated with 3) define a concept for key/ identity

ron: Item (2) implies relaxing containment requirements

ron: 5. Alignment with standards (JAXB, JPA) ... may be solved by (2)

ron: 6. HelperContext initialization/ bootstrapping

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): Action Item: Charlton will present results of ECMAScript investigation to TC

ron: 7. Acquiring metadata from java... Not only XSD->Static SDO but also Static SDO -> SDO metadata

ron: 8. Keeping in sync DAS WG

ron: This list is not in any order

ron: should we have subcommittees?

ron: should we have subcommittees?

ron: should we have subcommittees?

ron: should we have subcommittees?

ron: Item 2 should be addressed first

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): if we're looking to examine a repurposing problem for managing spec text across bindings i can work on (over?) this

ron: Action items: Ron will write a draft, pass it to Frank, and then we will submit it to the committee.

Charlton Barreto (Adobe): volunteer to look at problem of manage spec text across core and bindings specs

ron: Tuesdays agenda will include timelines

ron: Also on Tuesdays agenda: HelperContexts