NCA/118/11/2014 (2) NYANDARUA COUNTY ASSEMBLY DEBATES
REPUBLIC OF KENYA
NYANDARUA COUNTY ASSEMBLY
1st ASSEMBLY-2nd SESSION
OFFICIAL (HANSARD) REPORT
11TH NOVEMBER 2014
The assembly met at the Assembly Chambers at 2: 30 PM
The Deputy Speaker, Hon. Wambugu King’ori on the chair
Prayer
Speaker:Madam Clerk, confirmwhether there is quorum.
Clerk:Mr. Speaker Sir there is no quorum.
Speaker:Let the bell be rang for the initial ten minutes or until such a time that the quorum will be achieved.
(The bell rings for 5 minutes)
Speaker:Madam Clerk, do we have a quorum?
Clerk: Mr. Speaker Sir, there is quorum now.
Speaker: Then the bell can be disengaged.Let’s proceed with the business on the Order Paper.
Clerk: First order; Administration of Oath, there is no one to administer oath to.
Speaker: Next.
Clerk: Second order; Communication from the Chair.
Speaker:Hon. Members, I wish to communicate to you that we have a delegation that has gone to Israel on an invitation from the Israel government.Among those who have gone are:His Excellency the Governor, some members of the County Executive Committee and from the Legislative arm, we have the Hon. Speaker Ndegwa Wahome and some chairmen that is:Hon. Paul Kiruka Mburu, chairman Water, Environment and Natural Resources ; Hon. Samuel Kimani Gachuhi, chairman Roads, Public Works and Transport; Hon. Samuel Kimani Njiraini, chairman Agriculture , Livestock Development and Fisheries and Hon. Peter Maina Mwangi, chairman Justice ,Legal Affairs and Public Services. Next order
Clerk: Third order; messages Mr. Speaker Sir, thereare no messages.
Speaker: Next.
Clerk: Fourth order; petitions Mr. Speaker Sir, there are no petitions
Speaker: Next order.
Clerk: Fifthorder; Papers, there is a paper by Hon. James Gichuki.
Speaker:Hon. James Gichuki.
Hon. James Gichuki: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I wish to lay on the table the regulationsas provided by Salaries and Remuneration Commission dated 2nd October, 2014, and I table it with the clerk.
Speaker: Thank you Hon. Gichuki, the time to give notice I believe will be allocated by… is ita matter of urgency?
Hon. James Gichuki: No, Mr. Speaker, It is not very urgent. I think it can be discussed on Thursday. This isespeciallybecause theregulations are in relation to the remunerationof Members when at the plenary and actsof plenary.
There is a meeting that was held by the County Assemblies Forum (CAF) and the council of governors in Naivasha where a ten members committee was formed which is supposed to look into all the circulars that have been given by the SRCin relation to the remuneration of Members. It is advisable therefore, that we wait for the committee to deliberate and give us a way forward on this circular. We could discuss this on Thursday. The other clarification I wish to make…
(Hon. Kamau Ngotho rises on a point of order)
Speaker:Hon. Gichuki was on a point of information. What is itHon. Kamau Ngotho?
Hon. Kamau Ngotho: Mr. Speaker, how can theHon. Membertable something that is not addressedto the Nyandarua County Assembly? We are well aware that issues of our salaries are handled by our representatives. We cannot be discussing our salaries here and if we could, then we should start talking about increasing it right now, right here. This issue toucheson our allowances and salaries and the SRC ought to engage the representative body; not individual assemblies, justas the teachers have a body that represents them on issues of their salaries.
We don’t have cases of teachers from Ol’kalou going to Nairobi to talk to the National government about the issue of their salaries andsimilarly, we should not, as individual MCAs talk aboutour salary increment. Let the commissiondeal directly with the people that have been engaged by the 47county assemblies to deal with their salaries. Writing letters to the clerk is not acceptableand I stand to say that this document is not a preserve of this Hon. House.
Speaker:Hon. Kamau Ngotho, you have given your opinion but I believe Hon. Gichuki was trying to explain why he has tabled this document. We should have allowed him to finishbeforeproceeding to give our views. Proceed.
Hon. Gichuki: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The clarity I wish to put forward is thatone;the tabling of the document was actually requested by the county assembly of Marakwet but if you check down there, youwill see that it is copied to all the clerks of the county assemblies.
(Laughter)
The other clarification that I wish put across is on the issue raised by Hon. Ngotho and actually, it also raised serious issues in Naivasha.What we observed then is that there are various contradictory circulars that have been brought to usand for that reason, we decidedto form a ten members committee that was mandated to engage the SRC and get clarity on all the issues that we thinkare pertinent.We put together five members from the county assemblies and five governors to form the committee.
What I can confirm is that as an Assembly of Nyandarua, we are also in agreement that the circular as presented is not going to be effected until such a report is received from all the assemblies. I also want to clarify that I know there are some Members who said that the weeklyregistersthat show the meetings that one has attendedindicate that deductions have already been made and I am sure the clerk has rectified that. All the Members will be paid using the current system until this matter is settled. The only reason we are tabling it is for the benefit of informing the Memberseven as we engage and negotiate while waiting for theselect committee to carry out its mandate.
(Hon. Kamau Ngotho rises)
Speaker:Hon Kamau Ngotho.
Hon. Kamau Ngotho: Mr. Speaker sir, I believeevery Hon. Member has a pigeon hole assigned to them and if CASB wants to give us information, they should just place the circulars in the holes rather than waste the Assembly’s time by bringing such kind of things to the floor of this House. I feel that the Speaker should rule that this document be taken outof this Hon. House. It should be a preserve of the clerk’s office and should be in our pigeon holes not on the floor of this House.
Speaker: Yes Hon Thuita, are you rising on a point of order?
Hon. Thuita: Yes Mr. Speaker. I concur with Hon. Ngotho. I understand that the Member for Engineer was tabling this document so that he could later move a motion of its adoption. However, it should not be here in the first place…
(Applause)
…because when we give notice of a motion, movethe motion, deliberate on it and make resolutions, those resolutions becomebinding. In my opinion, you should have just made a communication to the Members as we wait for the report from the body that was mandated to deal with this issue.
Speaker:Hon Kibebo you want to say something?
Hon. Kibebo: Yes I want to say something. I agree with the Hon. MemberofKarau because, this document has been sneaked from theCounty assembly of Elgeyo Marakwet. Ours is a respectable Assembly that should be coming up with its own circulars.
Speaker: Yes Hon Gichuki.
Hon. Gichuki: Mr. Speaker, I wish to respond to the member for Gathaaraby telling him that the document was not sneaked because it actuallycame during the day and it waswellintended.However, having listened to the Hon. Members, theHon. Thuita and Hon. Ngotho, I am convinced that debating this document will be in vain because.Its purpose is just to serve as informative. Mr. Speaker, I know that you have ruled and the document has been tabled but I seek your direction on what we should do.
Speaker: My question was very clear to the person who tabled this document and as you have proposed,this document should not be moved in this House (applause). It requires to be discussed on another higher level by the CountyAssemblies Forum. Hon. Gichuki I believe there is no need for you to withdraw because, the Members have agreed that there is no need to discuss it at this level. Next order.
Clerk: Second paper by Hon. James Gichuki.
Speaker:Hon. Gichuki.
Hon. Gichuki: I further wish to lay on the table, Regulations as directed from the Public Finance Management Act on the Nyandarua county emergency fund regulations 2014. I table with the clerk.
Speaker: Thank you Hon. Gichuki. Can I get clarification from the clerk whether they have already allocated time for the notice on the same?
(Speaker consults with the clerk)
Hon. Members, this regulation is a statutory instrument. Under Standing Order number 185, the Delegated County Legislation Committee is the one supposed to look into this matter. Do we have any Member of the Delegated County Legislation? Yes Memberfor Wanjohi,Hon. Mumba?
(Hon Thuita rises on a point of order)
Hon Thuita: Mr. Speaker, I rise on Standing Order No. 109 (a) which states that;
Whether the legislative proposal is a draft money Bill in terms of Article 114 of the Constitution; and (b) whether the legislative proposal conforms to the Constitution and the law and is in order as to format and style in accordance with the Standing Orders.
What is important is that this is a legislative proposal and we are debating a draft here. Any legislative proposal or regulation in this House that has a financial effect to the county should be subjected to the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Based on that, the matter can be referred to both committees but the Budget and Appropriations committee should look at it first.
(HonGithinji (Geta ward) rises)
Speaker: Yes Hon Githinji.
Hon Githinji (Geta): Mr. Speaker I wish to concur with Hon Thuita bearing in mind that all aspects that touch on finances should be delegated to the Budget and Appropriation Committee. I wish to read Standing Order 109(3a) which states that;
Where the Speaker is of the opinion that a legislative proposal is a draft money Bill in terms of section 21 of the County Governments Act, 2012, direct that the legislative proposal be referred to the Budget Committee and shall be proceeded with only in accordance with the recommendations of the Budget Committee aftertaking into account the views of the Member of County Executive Committee responsible for finance and examining the manner in which the legislative proposal affects the current and future budgets.
Thank you Mr. Speaker sir.
Speaker:Hon. Members, Hon. Thuita and Hon. Githinji have both risen on points of order and what they have stated is true. If you read Standing Order No. 185(2), It states that;
Whenever a statutory instrument is submitted to the County Assembly pursuant the Constitution, any law or these Standing Orders, the statutory instrument shall, unless a contrary intention appears in the relevant legislation, be laid before the County Assembly by the Chair of the relevant Sectoral Committee, or any other member and shall thereafter stand referred to the Committee on Delegated County Legislation.’
The first scrutiny should go to the members of the specific sectoral committee and then go to the committee on Delegated County Legislation. My humble request to this House is thatwe first give it to the Budget and Appropriation committee as per the Standing Orders. After they scrutinize it, they willbring it back to the House and lay it as a paper. It will then be takenup by the committee onDelegated County Legislation. Alternatively, we could do as we havealways doneby having a joint committee of the Delegated County Legislation and the Budget and Appropriation Committee.Yes, Hon. Kibebo.
Hon Kibebo: Mr. Speaker sir, we are seeking advice regarding a funds issue. I think it should systematically follow all the steps in the regulations. Thank you.
Speaker: Hon. Mumba.
Hon Mumba: Mr. Speaker I concur with you. From the Standing Order we can see the regulations governing the same. I suggest we have a joint committee because that way, all aspects will be taken care of.
Speaker:This is a regulation and it is also a statutory instrument. At the end of the day, it will stand referred to the Committee on Delegated County Legislation. So members, let us have a joint committee between the Delegated County Legislation and the Budget and Appropriation Committees. Chairman, can you give us the time when you are going to complete this legislation?
Hon. Gachomba: Mr. Speaker, I am of the opinion that the Committee on Delegated County Legislation and the Budget and Appropriation Committees committee should get together so that they can set the time frames. If it is given to the committee on Delegated County Legislation, it will only be a draft. Later on it will be referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee to see whether it has been done accordingly. It is better to work as a team so that we can come up with one harmonized document, and I think 14 days are enough Mr. Speaker.
Speaker: Chairman Budget and Appropriations Committee, I am worried because, we have a lot of regulations coming and it is important that we limit the time.
Hon Gachomba: Mr. Speaker, I don’t know how urgently they need this fund. It is an emergency fund. If we give it a long time, it might cause delays to the other activities that might need to be undertaken by the executive. It is necessary that we move fast and create the fund so that we can be able to move forward.
Speaker: Hon. Ndirangu.
Hon.Ndirangu: Mr. Speaker since the two committees have been merged, who shall be chairing this committee? My opinion is that the chair budget should be the head because it is entitled to…
Speaker: Even before Hon Thuita stands on a point of order members, definitely that is a matter to be discussed in the committee, not in the assembly.
(Laughter)
Hon Githinji (Geta): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just wish to inform my able chairman that even if we speed up the formulation of this act, it is still subject to the supplementary budget. We never allocated funds for emergencies.
Speaker: I am informed that those within the jurisdiction of this matter touching on the Public Finance Management Act will handle that.
The chairman of Delegated County Legislation has the same mandate as the chairman of budget and appropriation. Therefore they are treated as chairmen. They will be paid as chairmen. Let us proceed. Hon. Gachomba.
Hon Gachomba: Mr. Speaker there is a concern that we need to extend the time limit to three weeks to be able to come up with a proper document.
Speaker: Accepted. Next order.
Clerk: Order No. 6: Notices of Motion.
Speaker: Next.
Clerk: Order No. 7: Statements.
Speaker: Order No. 8; Motions and Bills. There is a motion by Hon. Kariuki Muchiri.
Speaker:Hon. Kariuki Muchiri.
Hon. Muchiri: Thank you Mr. Speaker sir. I beg to move the following motion:
That this House does adopt the Report on Grabbed Land in Gatimu Ward by the Committee on Lands, Housing and Physical Planning as a report of this House and the recommendations therein as resolutions of this House.
Mr. Speaker, there were three issues that the committee visited. There was a parcel of land at Nyakariang’a and two parcels in Baraka Village. I will dwell on the findings. I will start with the plot at Nyakariang’a whose registration number is Nyandarua/Oljoro-Orok/Salient/1886. There is the search that was conducted at the back of the report which shows the details of that land. That land has a title which is absolute. This means the land is freehold. It is one hectare which translates to about 2.5 acres. It has a proprietor by the name Ahmed M. Abdulahi. The title deed was issued on 21st January 2004. There was a caution which was placed on 6th March 2014 by one Stephen Mwangi Kariuki I.D. No. 0617247 who was representing the community.
The land had no charges but there is a court case in this matter and, therefore, the committee felt it cannot proceed with that matter until the case is heard and determined. We will have to wait as a committee until that matter is settled by the court lest we are charged with contempt of court. The other matter is the issue of Plot Number 824. The search is also attached. This land is absolute and has a freehold title and has an area of 0.35 hectares which translates to 0.86 acres and the proprietor is Henry Mwangi Kamau. He is the registered proprietor or owner and the title deed was issued on 5th May 2006.The land has no cautions, no inhibitions, no restrictionsand is actually a wetland.
We, as a committee, were surprised that one could grab such a plot yet you cannot construct a house because it is mushy and is only functional as a water pan or a small dam. Wefailed to understand for what purpose the person who grabbed the land intended it for. He applied for the land from the trustees but the community has an interest in it and we found that the CEC member in charge of Lands, Housing and Physical Planning should put a restriction on this title so that this person is stopped from developing this land.