FILE: DOG9.WMV

PAUL TOULETTE: Lutherans often quote Luther, the creeds, the

catechisms, and other people and their teaching as authorities.

Does this practice contradict what you've been saying?

DR. JOEL OKAMOTO: Yeah, that's a good question. My answer

simply would be no, or at least not necessarily. Lutherans and,

for that matter, other Christians, often quote the creeds,

Martin Luther, confessional documents, other theologians like

the fathers of the church or Medieval theologians or even modern

ones. They do so, or they should do so, I should say, not

instead of the Bible, or not alongside the Bible as an

authority, but in order to make the truth of the Bible come

through more clearly.

In other words, they should be used to help to develop a

particular point or to develop particular arguments more

clearly, more faithfully.

Take, for example, the issue of salvation. Imagine that you

want to talk about salvation. The Bible says a great deal about

salvation. For instance, in Ephesians 2, the passage about

grace. "For it is by grace you have been saved."

Now, there are many things that the Bible says about grace

but it says it here and there. It might be helpful sometimes to

bring this out with a simple quotation. A summary statement.

But you might not find exactly what you're looking for in the

Bible but Luther might have said it well. ******** (Moanthin)

might have said it well. It might have been said well by one of

the early church fathers, but a modern theologian, or in the

catechism or, for that matter, by a pastor, a favorite pastor.

And it can be appropriate, too, to cite them, to quote them, but

not instead of the Bible, as it were, but to help make what the

Bible says come through more clearly.

Now, so long as the Bible remains authoritative, this really

isn't -- doesn't involve a contradiction. Of course, that can

be easier said than done. It's not always easy to allow the

Bible to be really our guide, really our source, really the norm

for our teaching and preaching and the like. Francis Pieper

brings this out, then, when he talks about the aptitude

especially of the minister. Of the pastor. When he says that,

along with personal faith in Jesus Christ, one must have the

ability to confine himself in his teaching entirely to God's

word. He must be able to suppress his own thoughts about God in

divine matters and put aside the thoughts of other men deriving

the doctrine exclusively from the word of God from holy

scripture.

So what's important here then is really not only how you use

Martin Luther or the catechisms or the creeds or the confessions

or other theologians, but even the Bible. And we were getting

at that before. You can use even the Bible as an authority and

you can say something that the Bible does but still use it

wrongly. Still use it unfaithfully. Just because you can quote

a Bible passage for something to support your teaching or as an

argument doesn't mean that your teaching is true or that your

argument is correct. And if you can use the Bible wrongly, then

you can use Luther wrongly or the creeds or the confessions or

the catechisms and the like as well.

But to go back to your question, does the use of these things

necessarily involve a contradiction? No, not necessarily.

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