SEA FISH INDUSTRY AUTHORITY
Minutes of the
Seafish Marine Environmental Legislation Expert Group Meeting
Held at Fishmongers’ Hall, London on 26 January 2010
Present:
James Wilson / Chairman, SeafishMike Park / Deputy Chairman, Seafish
Dale Rodmell / National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisation
Tom Pickerell / Shellfish Association of Great Britain
Fiona Walters / Defra – item 6
Erin / Defra – item 5
Vivienne / DESH – via conference call – item 9
Louise / DESH – via conference call – item 9
Peter Wilson / Seafish
Sarah Horsfall / Seafish
Phil MacMullen / Seafish
Tricia Jordan / Seafish
Mark Gray / Seafish
Apologies:
Peter Winterbottom / The Association of Sea Fisheries CommitteesJerry Percy / Welsh Fishermen’s Federation Association
Walter Spiers / ASFG
Brian Miller / Scottish Environmental Protection Agency
David Tudor / Crown Estate
Rory Campbell / Scottish Fishermen’s Federation
Phil MacMullen / Seafish
David Collins / Defra
Helen Stevens / Natural England
Eamon Murphy / Marine Scotland
Neil Wellum / Marine and Fish Agency
Steve Colclough / Environment Agency
Patrick Stewart / Scottish Fishermens Federation
1. Welcome by the Chairman and apologies for absence
The Chairman welcomed everyone to the meeting and thanked Fishmongers’ Hall for hosting the event.
9. Protecting Welsh Seas
Vivienne and Louise from DESH joined the meeting via the telephone. Following the closure of the consultation period, 30 responses have been received in support of the strategy with no objections to the designated Marine Conservation Zones (MCZ’s) for Wales. Although they are aware that there are sensitive issues in managing the sites, further information would be required on enforcement and this will be incorporated into the revised strategy which will be available in the spring and be available on their website.
The aim of MCZ’s in Wales is to contribute to the ecological UK network and they are developing a criteria to identify designated conservation sites based on ecological, socio and ecosystems. The timeframe for sites to be in place is end of 2012 but may slip to early 2013.
The UK network has a different type of marine protection areas – wildbirds, conservation (habitats and species). They have agreed to work closely with the other UK administrations to provide the best available evidence to ensure it all fits together.
Various groups have been formed:
Technical Advisory Group
Provide technical support to group and stakeholders (expert advice on aim of project)
Chair: Professor Stephen Hawkins, Bangor University
Steering Group
Overall directions of project – outcomes and milestones
Chair: Matthew Quinn, Director, Welsh Assembly Government – Environment Department
Stakeholders and Citizens Engagement Group
General awareness throughout Wales and engage with citizens. Decide on locations in Welsh waters.
Group report to Steering Group on a quarterly basis
Chair: Professor Linda Warren
Phil MacMullen asked whether there were any plans for a management group. Vivienne advised that a key objective of the project is to have a management structure consisting of technical, expert and neutral advisors involved, but not as a separate group but an integral part of the project.
Dale Rodmell referred to the Stakeholder group and enquired how the group would be managed or whether they are simply a group that drew lines on maps. Vivienne stated that the this was not the case but in Wales acts as a conduit. The Technical group selects the criteria, puts together a proposal of conduit sites for the Stakeholders group which is a different approach to England.
Dale Rodmell asked about the process of socio economic value as this was a sensitive area. Vivienne replied that the Technical Group where looking at this at the moment as it was an important aspect in the process.
Mark Gray advised that Seafish were on the Technical Advisory Group and with regard to the socio impact a lot of work had started on ecological criteria. A meeting was held last week in Carmarthen on how to deal with socio economic implications and are looking to set up sub-groups and workshops.
Mike Park asked what protocols were involved in the process for best available evidence as basis for decisions. Vivienne advised it was proposed to establish what evidence was available and then determine where the gaps appear, but a decision was required on how to take this further as it may involve further research. Mark Gray stated that once the process had started and gaps appeared it was proposed that a survey be carried out.
Phil MacMullen acknowledged that the timescale of 2013 could slip due to lack of data being revealed over the next few months. He enquired whether the deadline would be kept as stated. Vivienne advised that they were confident they would meet end of 2012 beginning 2013.
Tom Pickerell asked whether a list of sites would be produced for consultation with stakeholders and industry. Vivienne advised that consultations would be held around the coast giving the full picture for potential sites. Tom Pickerell asked whether Vivienne could circulate an outline of what is happening in Wales as a lot of his Shellfish Association of Great Britain (SAGB) members are requesting this information. Vivienne advised that work on this was currently being processed and would be updated on their website in two weeks time, but she will get a colleague to email Tom with the information.
The Chairman asked about the network and whether the ecological criteria and cohesion were the same as in UK. Vivienne stressed that they were working to the same principals, but the site selection guidance was slightly different. The Chairman enquired whether any damage or disturbance activities in the areas would be classed as disallowed as well as the process for natural changes. This question was raised at the first Technical Group and a decision has yet to be taken on how to deal with this matter. Mark Gray stated that there was a need to have clear conservation objectives through natural changes if sites deemed not to meet criteria.
Phil MacMullen referred again to the timescale and the risk associated with not meeting the deadline due to lack of data. He advised that this should be continually be flagged up.
Dale Rodmell advised that the NFFO had formed an MPA coalition to establish a network of marine protected areas around the coast of the United Kingdom.
Mike Park – Simon Greenstreet, CUSACK Group 29 January – findings?
The Chairman asked whether this committee were doing anything to further industry issues on this. Tom Pickerell replied that there were problems engaging with industry even though to industry this is a big thing. Mark Gray suggested attending MPZ’s workshops. Dale Rodmell stated that this was blind to under 15m boats.
Mike Park stated that the pre-drafting of the document picking areas/zones industry not given equal opportunity. Industry out of the loop find it very difficult to effect. Mark Gray stressed that MTZ Stakeholder group recommend the sites, need to go gack to Natural England to make sure all the boxes are ticked. Phil MacMullen advised that it should be Ministers and Civil Servants looking at this.
The Chairman advised that Seafish send out to all participants, stakeholders, industry and UK APA group.
ACTIONS: DESH to circulate outline of what is happening in Wales to Tom Pickerell for his SAGB members.
Timescale to be flagged up
2. Minutes and Action Points of the meeting held on the 6 October 2009
The minutes were accepted as a true record apart from:
· Full names of Defra personnel in minutes.
· Change migrate to mitigate
All action points from the last meeting are covered elsewhere in the agenda.
3. Matters Arising
3.1 UK Marine and Coastal Access Act - DEFRA
Fiona Walters gave an update on this matter. Work is currently in progress on updating the Defra website.
The consultation on Marine Plan Areas within the English Inshore and English Offshore Marine Regions closes on 16 February.
Draft Marine Policy statement is aimed for March with operation March/April 2011.
No decision has yet been made with respect to ongoing work in two areas in the Marine Plan. Mark Gray asked whether this was a pilot. Fiona Walters advised that there would be a number of workshops in the coming months.
Sarah Horsfall had attended two workshops recently and congratulated Defra for the opportunity to allow input. The first workshop referred to compatible actives and incompatible conservation. The second workshop was odd from the point of view different process policy statement cannot tell you what is in it and are now tackling case studies. Main issue very concerned about pilot areas planned before others. Planning process can take 16 years. How exactly policy makers and people writing policy statement define their roles and responsibilities is a key issue. From a fishing point of view one, Sarah Horsfall was the only representative from the fishing industry and there was no mention of fishing throughout the entire workshop which focused on port development and fishing channels and marine policy statement. There is no national fishing policy statement.
Tom Pickerell attended the workshop in Southampton and he was the only fishing representative there as the majority of the audience consisted of yachting people and the workshop concentrated on ports and windfarms. Tom Pickerell raised the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) and foreign vessels and they had no knowledge of this.
Dale Rodmell attended the workshop in Newcastle which consisted of putting dots on charts. He confirmed that National Fishermen’s Federation Organsation (NFFO) are working with Crown Estates (CE) on renewable energy.
The Chairman asked what role Marine Management Organisation (MMO) would have. Fiona Walters replied that MMO would have an important role in decision making. How it will work in practice did not know at present until the MMO was officially launched. Sarah Horsfall advised that the English Marine Policy was different to the Scottish Marine Policy. Fiona Walters stated that there was provision in the Act to cover this as Scottish Government received additional powers, the signing of the Marine Policy would go ahead without Scotland, but Defra are confident that this will not happen.
Mike Park pointed out that the one weakness was the none participation of fishermen at the workshops and there was a need for greater industry representation.
Mark Gray asked if Fiona Walters could provide a list of consultations coming up in the next year to enable Seafish to look at the workload and educate Defra.
Mark Gray to initiate plan with Defra on possible timetable on legislation instruments.
ACTION: Seafish to initiate plan with Defra on timetable on legislation instruments.
Defra to provide list of upcoming consultations
3.2 Marine Licensing
Sarah Horsfall met with Shaun Ryan, Defra to discuss the issue of fishing licences. Fishing is already covered by fishing licences but not covered by Marine Licensing which means could end up with two licensing regimes. Defra have advised that all forms of fishing will be excluded from the Marine Licensing Act in the spring.
Tom Pickerell met with Defra yesterday and confirmed that building a jetty on private estate would not be excluded. They are currently looking into the matter. Defra are to attend the next Mollusc Committee meeting and also the SAGB conference.
Mark Gray referred to the offshore mussel farms in the south west in relation to the Coastal Protection Act as he has concerns whether the mussel farms would be exempt or separate. Fiona Walters replied that it would depend on timing.
ACTIONS: Mark Gray to forward Tom Pickerell copy of letter and Tom Pickerell to email Defra with concerns.
3.3 Several and Regulating Orders
Following a meeting with Defra, Natural England and Crown Estates, Tom Pickerell has now received revised guidance notes from Crown Estates with their comments and are now in the process of comparing. Defra comments are still awaited along with Natural England. Next meeting is being held on 8 February.
3.4 Any other Matters Arising
None.
4. Scottish Marine Bill
Eamon Murphy, Scottish Government unfortunately could not attend today but Sarah Horsfall spoke to him yesterday for an update on the Marine Bill.
The Marine Bill is now at stage 3. The Scottish Fishermens’ Federation put forward a number of amendments, but it is not known whether they would have the support of SNP. The Several Regulatory Orders are in line with the UK Marine Bill and will be put forward again on the 27 January when it is hoped that the SNPs will support this time round.
The Bill did not take into account social economic when designating historic wreck sites. This has now been amended and is expected not to be withdrawn.
6. Marine Strategy Framework Directive
Fiona Walters advised that a summary of comments following the consultation would be completed in March/April. The next Stakeholder Forum meeting takes place on 28 January.
Dale Rodmell explained that the Environmental Group meets next week which he is attending. He confirmed that there are 11 descriptors in the framework directive and from information received ICES are currently working on these. A report on each descriptor shows that the science information was not good enough and more work would be required. This is a dangerous area following the decline of the fleet over the past 20 years so the worse case scenario would be a fleet cap which would effect the future of the industry.
Sarah Horsfall stated that the Marine Strategy Framework Directive (MSFD) related to the environmental arm in the sea and the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) related to the operation of the sea and it must be ensured that both interact completely together. There are concerns that the MSFD overlaps the Shelflish Water Framework Directive (WFD) causing conflict between the two, but it was not know which one would take precedence. Fiona Walters advised that indicators would be discussed at the next working group meeting when a decision would be taken on their suitability. There needs to be interaction with WFD looking at the measures and more information and consideration on management requirements. David Collins will be attending a meeting next week so more information will be available after that meeting.