The Town of Newborn
Special Called Meeting Minutes
February 21, 2011
7PM
Present: Mayor Roger Sheridan, MPT Tom Krieger, CP Ellwanger, CP Downs, CP Donaldson, Clerk Elisa Rowe, Attorney Joe Reitman, Deputy Doug Clifton.
Approximately 11 citizens were present.
I. CALL TO ORDER: Meeting was called to order at 7PM by Mayor Sheridan
II. INVOCATION: CP John Donaldson
III. PLEDGE OF ALLIGIANCE: Lead by Mayor Sheridan
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: February 7, 2011: CP Ellwanger made a motion to approve the minutes of February 7th.
Motion: CP Ellwanger Second: CP Downs Approved: 5-0-0
V. OLD BUSINESS:
**Mayor Sheridan recognized Deputy Clifton to update everyone on news or updates in Newborn. Deputy Clifton stated that the neighborhood watch meeting was held on February 17th with about thirteen people in attendance. The next tentative date for a NWM is March 24th. Deputy Clifton stated that the county crime map will be on the Town website each week. Mayor Sheridan stated to Deputy Clifton that he had heard he had written out some tickets last week. Deputy Clifton stated that while in Newborn last week, he wrote out nine (9) tickets in an hour. **
A. Firearm discussion: Rebecca Hynum and J.W. Cummings:
Mayor Sheridan stated that this is a disagreement between two neighbors, it is not the Town’s position to straighten this out for the two neighbors, they have to get along and work it out. The Mayor added that we have looked at the zoning and the law that we have on hand, Section 31-101 Discharging Firearms, and based upon input we have come up with three possibilities for sorting this out. We can stay with the original as it is now, we can go with a completely revised ordinance, or we can go to an amended ordinance. Mayor Sheridan asked if either party had anything to add to what was said last week, but added that we do not need to listen to what went on before, we have all of that in the minutes, but we would like to hear if you have any new information, evidence, etc. Before Mr. Cummings or Mrs. Hynum spoke, Attorney Joe Rietman stated that he had been thinking about the concept of using the Agricultural zoning as a basis for the amended ordinance, because it is a zoning matter, if we are going to change that you can have some preliminary discussion on that tonight, however to actually change it to say, “you can only have firearms discharge in an “A” zoning district”, you have to put the notice in the paper 15 days prior, and so forth before implementing the change. You can discuss it tonight, but you cannot implement that change until you go through the proper protocol if that is the route the Mayor and Council decide to take.
Mr. J.W. Cummings: Mr. Cummings stated that MPT Tom Krieger came to his home, and the two employees with the city measured the distance, and asked Mr. Krieger if he was within the ordinance. MPT Krieger stated that he was. Mr. Cummings stated that he did nothing wrong. Mr. Cummings stated that he has documents where Mrs. Hynums kids paint balled his shop and rather than pursue it, he dropped it. Mr. Cummings stated that he does not know how to cope with the problem with Mrs. Hynum; nothing he does pacifies her. Mr. Cummings added that Mrs. Hynum is shooting in her backyard, she is hollering at him, and she is in her own yard shooting too. Mr. Cummings stated that Mrs. Hynum has called on him even when he is eating at I-Hop and she claims he is at home shooting, there is no way. Mayor Sheridan stated to Mr. Cummings that was discussed at the previous meeting and it is in the minutes, and he would like Mr. Cummings to present any new information or evidence, not to go back and state what has already been said.
Mrs. Rebecca Hynum: Stated that she would like to once again state that this is not a neighborhood dispute in anyway, shape or form. She is not the only one that feels this way.
Mayor Sheridan stated that it is up to the board to decide if we want to stay with what we have, go to the large change, or an amended change. Mayor Sheridan added that we have checked with the other Towns in the County and also with Social Circle; who does not allow any shooting in the Town. Mansfield, Porterdale, and Covington do not allow any shooting in the Town; Rutledge allows shooting if it is 350 yards from the property line; that is a quarter of a mile, so that practically stops any shooting in Rutledge. CP Donaldson stated that if you look at Exhibit “A” of the amendment that the Attorney presented, the third paragraph reads: “No pistols, revolvers, muzzleloaders, rifles or similar firearms discharging a bullet or ball or slug are allowed in said hunting. Only shotguns may be used, and only #7, #8, and similar shot, known as birdshot or target loads, may be used. The largest permissible caliber allowed is 20 gauge, and no magnum loads may be used”. CP Donaldson proposed that we take that paragraph as it is and include in the first paragraph of the amended copy that CP Ellwanger submitted. CP Donaldson stated that the most dangerous thing about shooting is rifles and that the rounds carry so far, and like the Mayor has stated, no shooting is allowed at all in other Towns, and it seems if we are going to allow any kind of shooting, it would be the safest kind of shooting as possible. CP Downs stated that excludes everything but a 20 gauge shotgun. Attorney Joe Reitman stated that is correct, basically 20 gauge or smaller shotgun. CP Donaldson stated that maybe we should change the sentence to read “the only permissible firing will be with a 20 gauge” CP Ellwanger asked CP Donaldson if he meant that only the shotgun can be used in Zone “A”. CP Donaldson stated absolutely, according to the amendment submitted by CP Ellwanger there will be no firing anywhere else except the areas that are zoned agricultural, the only safe weapon to fire is a shotgun. Attorney Joe Reitman stated that a 20, 28 or 410 would be alright. CP Ellwanger stated to all citizens in attendance that if they would like to look at the zoning map, anything that is in green is zoned agriculture, that is “A” only. CP Donaldson stated that this had the advantage of being outside the area where houses are. Wanda Cummings stated that some of their property is zoned “A”. CP Ellwanger stated that she thought they were zoned “AR” (Agricultural Residential). Wanda Cummings stated that not the whole property is zoned “AR”. Mayor Sheridan stated that according to the zoning map, they are “AR”.
Wayne Sams: Mr. Sams stated that he has looked at the current firearm discharge ordinance and the way it reads, 250 feet from a public road or 150 feet from a property line, that pretty much excludes everything but agricultural.
Wanda Cummings stated that the current ordinance does not exclude their property as they have had it measured and have been told we are following the present ordinance.
Patrick Kearney: Mr. Kearney stated that he has done some research on his own, looking at the different municipalities close by; Rutledge, Social Circle, Oxford and Covington. In Mansfield, you cannot shoot at all, and that ordinance was changed in 1972, a lot of these, in the last 20-30 years, have changed to where you cannot shoot there, plain and simple fact. Rutledge is 350 yards, and that is a long, long way.
Jackie Sewell: Stated that he has been listening to all of this, and we keep comparing Newborn to Mansfield, Newborn to Covington, are we Mansfield, are we Covington? No, we are Newborn. Do we want to be Mansfield; do we want to be Covington? We have our own identity and wanted to know why we keep comparing Newborn to other towns. Mayor Sheridan stated that in comparison, these other Towns which are almost our size, have laws that do not allow any shooting. Mr. Sewell stated that we have one about “out and out shooting”. Mayor Sheridan stated that if this hadn’t been stirred up, we probably would not be talking tonight about what we are talking about, but it has been stirred up and something has to be done to stop it. Mr. Sewell stated that he knows of folks that do shoot in Mansfield, if they need do, squirrels, and no one says anything. Mr. Sewell stated that he does understand about getting along with your neighbors.
CP Donaldson asked Attorney Joe Reitman what the steps would be to make a change to the ordinance. Joe Reitman stated that the Mayor and Council would instruct him to move forward with a proposed zoning change as he has heard the comments tonight, and he has a pretty good idea where this is going; which is to add the one paragraph into the version that CP Ellwanger has proposed. That would be easy enough to draw up. Then the ad has to go into the newspaper 15 days prior to the next meeting. You would have a public hearing, and a zoning hearing, or it is not legal. Mayor Sheridan asked what steps do we need to take. Attorney Joe Reitman stated to vote tonight for him to move forward with drafting the language for further consideration and discussion on the 21st of March, and for the Clerk to run the notice in the paper.
Mrs. Hynum: Stated that she is in agreement with Patrick (Kearney) and she knows that the Mayor and Council are trying to do the best that they can, but we can’t please everyone. She does not feel like guns should be a part of our daily life in Newborn. We are growing and getting bigger with more and more people coming in. If we allow guns for one spot, then the others are going to say “why can’t we” and they are going to go ahead and continue to shoot anyway. Mrs. Hynum added that she would really appreciate it if the Mayor and Council would think about that. Mrs. Hynum stated as an example (and she is not trying to point out anybody) but for instance with Sam Walton. He lives right next door to a church and there are a lot of people all week there, and she does not think, if he shoots in his backyard, that is 150 feet to the church and that is something to think about. Mrs. Hynum added that people are also walking throughout town, even if they don’t own a piece of property. We have to safeguard their position when they are walking down the sidewalk; and a lot of people go for evening strolls. It is something to think about it, and she would appreciate it if they Mayor and Council would consider that. CP Donaldson stated that a lot of little towns do not have agricultural property inside their city limit and that kind of makes Newborn different.
B. Firearm Ordinance: CP Donaldson made a motion that we move forward with the Ellwanger amendment with the third paragraph from Exhibit “A” as our new discharge firearm policy. CP Downs stated that he will not go along with any agricultural ordinance because his property is six (6) acres and it is not agricultural; it is over 900 feet from the road to the back of his property; we don’t have to have that. If you have in there 20 gauge or lower, with no rifles, what is the problem. Ted Sheldon (Planning and Zoning member) stated that agricultural, according to zoning, is ten (10) acres or more. Mrs. Hynum stated that the difference between a shotgun and the others is that a shotgun may not kill you, but it can certainly put out eyes and maime someone pretty severely so she would appreciate if you would consider that too. Wanda Cummings had a question regarding zoning, Mr. Sheldon stated that 10 acres or more is considered agricultural, but if it is not on the zoning map, is it still considered agricultural.
Mr. Sheldon stated that anything green on the zoning map should be considered agricultural. Wanda Cummings stated that their property is twenty something acres, but we are being told that we are not agricultural, but AR and that would mean to us the no shooting factor. CP Downs made a motion to go with the ordinance (Exhibit A) that the attorney drafted. CP Ellwanger stated that would allow shooting between 10AM and 3PM on weekdays. CP Downs stated that if you take a 410 or a 20 gauge shotgun, and go 150 feet, he would let you shoot at him all day long because it will not reach you. Mayor Sheridan asked if anyone would like to make a motion on what we move on. CP Downs stated that he just made a motion to approve Exhibit A that the attorney drew up. Attorney Joe Reitman stated that subsection A of Exhibit A allows for nuisance small game hunting and limits the hours in the recognition that you have a neighborhood scenario. There are other limitations in there also, regarding birdshot, and no larger than a 20 gauge. There are some exceptions, under subsection B; if you have nuisance birds and the County Board of Health says it is an issue. The most important exception is under subsection B, item number 2. This one is not subject to those time constraints; if you have a larger acreage tract, where you can shoot at least 200 yards away from property lines and roadways. It is not tied to acreage, it is not tied to zoning, but it does say you have to be at least 600 feet away. That is the one that allows you to get by without having to worry about the zoning issue. It does allow the larger shot, such as buckshot and slugs. CP Ellwanger stated that she thinks it is too complicated, and unenforceable. For example, she hears a gun go off at 3:15 and she calls 911 and she thinks it is coming from Mr. Smith’s property; the police go over to Mr. Smith’s, and Mr. Smith said yes he did shoot his gun, but he shot it at 5 minutes till 3, she doesn’t know what she is talking about, it wasn’t 3:15. Then she could say she heard Mr. Smith shoot a rifle, and Mr. Smith said, no I didn’t, I shot a shotgun with a #7 shot, and I am perfectly within the ordinance; CP Ellwanger stated again, it is just unenforceable and too complicated. Attorney Reitman stated that you get into prosecution issues with any case and you will always have enforceability challenges. Mr. Reitman added that the purpose behind the detail is to try to be as fair as possible, and even more importantly to emphasize safety. Mr. Reitman stated that he would agree that Exhibit A has more paragraphs and it is a little more complicated, but most of that was put in for safety reasons. Mayor Sheridan asked if there were any more comments. There were none. Mayor Sheridan asked for a vote for the motion on the table to approve Exhibit A ordinance. CP Downs voted in favor, with CP Ellwanger, CP Krieger, CP Donaldson and Mayor Sheridan against.