Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC)
Public Meeting – March 22, 2011
Attendees (15):
BoxDweller – The Pumpkin Order
Corvis Nocturnum – Dark Moon Press & Independent Representative
Deacon Gray – House of the Dreaming (HotD) & Graveyard Press
Ithril - Independent Representative
Lono – PsychicVampire.org
Mairi– ShadowLore
Merticus – Atlanta Vampire Alliance (AVA) & Suscitatio Enterprises, LLC
Mistress Mikyla – VampireChurch& Independent Representative
NyteMuse – House Rosa
Rune – House Rosa
SphynxCatVP – SphynxCatVP Real Vampires Support Site
Sylvere ap Leanan – Real Vampires Community Alliance (RVCA)
The Pink Lady – Vampirism eList
Vyrdolak – By Light Unseen
Zero – Atlanta Vampire Alliance (AVA) & Suscitatio Enterprises, LLC
Discussion Agenda:
I. Meeting Info & Introductions
Welcome to the first public meeting of Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) for 2011. If you have not attended a VVC meeting before or are reading this for the first time please briefly take note of how this meeting will be conducted. The transcript from tonight’s meeting is being logged and will be made publicly available.
Topics will be presented in the order they appear on the agenda (VVC members may refer to the forum or their e-mail for tonight’s schedule). Please do not skip ahead and please do not suggest discussion of items not on the agenda until at the end of each major discussion topic.
Feel free to speak your mind on any and all topics in a civil manner and offer any supporting information, links, or material as needed. Thank you for coming and now let’s begin!
II. Background & Introduction
VVC was founded January 2006.
The purpose of the Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) is to develop friendly relations among the various Houses, Covens, Orders, and other organizations of the vampire community; to encourage cooperation in solving community related problems and in promoting respect for the views, ideas, and opinions of others without seeking to establish a unifying or governing body; and to be a center for harmonizing the actions of groups in attaining these ends. – August 8, 2006
Voices Of The Vampire Community (VVC) does not assert itself as the exclusive organization of leaders or notable persons in the vampi(y)re community nor do we view ourselves or our actions as legislative or authoritarian.
The members of the VVC are representative of multiple groups, Houses, Orders, paths, beliefs, and segments of the vampi(y)re community who meet and are able to put aside personal differences to work together to discuss, suggest, implement, and support projects, ideas, and other intellectual works that help to improve the overall community.
For more information please visit our web site at:
We are available to answer questions through the community feedback form available at the site above.
III. Discussion
As a departure from the specific matters we discuss in business meetings, tonight’s meeting will take a broader and more relevant approach to the vampi(y)re community. Opinions offered from members of the VVC who are unable to attend tonight’s meeting will be posted first after the asking of each question. All present members please allow time for this to occur prior to posting your own response. Just as a reminder, conversation is to be kept civil, statements or claims backed by example where necessary, and in cases of insuperable disagreements; a concession between parties to respectfully agree to disagree.
Let’s start the evening with these questions:
a. Sang/Psi Separation - A Two-Part Question: There has recently been a resurgence in debate and discussion across the vampire community regarding the differences in manifestations or personal interpretation of vampirism, most notably sanguinarian and psychic/psi feeding methods.(1) What are your thoughts about the creation of "type specific" forums or groups? (2) Do you think the division of the community into two or three distinct segments would improve or hinder the overall study and understanding of one's personal vampirism?
b. Custody Battles Where Vampirism Is A Factor - A Two-Part Question: (1) In light of the growing awareness of custody battles affecting self-identified vampires and donors where community involvement and/or the practice of vampirism is a factor, what can be done to help safeguard against or minimize the impact vampirism has in such situations?(2) What can be done, if anything, to protect oneself against reprisals by spouses, loved ones, or even third-parties should they choose to present evidence to the court of blood drinking and other vampiric practices?
c.Academic Interpretations Of The Vampire Community & Real Vampirism: Historically, the general public's awareness of and information about the vampire community and real vampirism has typically come from sensationalist media attention and literary works from colourful personalities on the fringes of or labeled to be associated with the vampire community and from high-profile individuals within the vampire community. More recently, several academics have started to garner attention, usually presenting less sensational, primarily external perspectives. These are typically of greater influence on the views of those in the outside world than perspectives generated internally.(1) How does this impact the external view of the community and vampirism (positively or negatively)?(2) In what ways can we impact what information and perspectives those outside the community are presented with?
d.Strengthening Ties With Other Communities - A Three-Part Question: There is a high degree of overlap between the vampire community and some other identity groups and subcultures (such as the Pagan, Wiccan, BDSM, and GLBT communities) both in terms of issues within and outside perspectives of our communities and in crossover of membership or self-identification.(1) Should we try to strengthen those ties and what would be the benefits and disadvantages of doing so?(2) In what ways could those connections be strengthened?(3) What could we learn from the Pagan, Wiccan, BDSM, and GLBT communities that we could apply towards community building efforts within our own community?
e. Other topics you’d like to bring up for discussion?
IV. Business Reminders
<Merticus< BEGIN MEETING LOG >
<Merticus>Voices of the Vampire Community
<Merticus>Public Meeting - March 22, 2011
<Merticus>Discussion Agenda:
<Merticus>I. Meeting Information
<Merticus>Welcome to the first public meeting of Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) for 2011. If you have not attended a VVC meeting before or are reading this for the first time please briefly take note of how this meeting will be conducted. The transcript from tonight’s meeting is being logged and will be made publicly available.
<Merticus>Topics will be presented in the order they appear on the agenda (VVC members may refer to the forum or their e-mail for tonight’s schedule). Please do not skip ahead and please do not suggest discussion of items not on the agenda until at the end of each major discussion topic.
<Merticus>Feel free to speak your mind on any and all topics in a civil manner and offer any supporting information, links, or material as needed. Thank you for coming and now let’s begin!
<Merticus>II. Background & Introduction
<Merticus>VVC was founded January 2006.
<Merticus>The purpose of the Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) is to develop friendly relations among the various Houses, Covens, Orders, and other organizations of the vampire community; to encourage cooperation in solving community related problems and in promoting respect for the views, ideas, and opinions of others without seeking to
<Merticus>establish a unifying or governing body; and to be a center for harmonizing the actions of groups in attaining these ends. – August 8, 2006
<Merticus>Voices Of The Vampire Community (VVC) does not assert itself as the exclusive organization of leaders or notable persons in the vampi(y)re community nor do we view ourselves or our actions as legislative or authoritarian.
<Merticus>The members of the VVC are representative of multiple groups, Houses, Orders, paths, beliefs, and segments of the vampi(y)re community who meet and are able to put aside personal differences to work together to discuss, suggest, implement, and support projects, ideas, and other intellectual works that help to improve the overall community.
<Merticus>For more information please visit our web site at:
<Merticus>We are available to answer questions through the community feedback form available at the site above.
<Merticus>III. Discussion
<Merticus>As a departure from the specific matters we discuss in business meetings, tonight’s meeting will take a broader and more relevant approach to the vampi(y)re community. Opinions offered from members of the VVC who are unable to attend tonight’s meeting will be posted first after the asking of each question.
<Merticus>All present members please allow time for this to occur prior to posting your own response. Just as a reminder, conversation is to be kept civil, statements or claims backed by example where necessary, and in cases of insuperable disagreements; a concession between parties to respectfully agree to disagree.
<Merticus>Let’s start the evening with these questions:
<Merticus>a. There has recently been a resurgence in debate and discussion across the vampire community regarding the differences in manifestations or personal interpretation of vampirism, most notably sanguinarian and psychic/psi feeding methods.
<Merticus>What are your thoughts about the creation of "type specific" forums or groups? Do you think the division of the community into two or three distinct segments would improve or hinder the overall study and understanding of one's personal vampirism?
CorvisNocturnumSpecific type of forums are good due to the fact people need a place to call their own, to feel others can relate and connect with them, as family going through the same things. But a shared community such as the VVC, Vampire Community News (VCN), Darkness Embraced (DE), etc. are as needed for people no matter the subtle differences, also need to not feel segregated. So in a nutshell, both are needed, not the exclusion of one for the other. Networking for similar, community interactions and shared causes/media front should be the focus. United we stand!
MairiI don't see where having "type specific" forums or groups would solve anything. If it did anything it would drive a bigger wedge between us. It all comes down to one thing. Doesn't matter what type of energy we feed upon we are all Vampires (vampiric). Feeding upon blood doesn't give one special talents or skills anymore than feeding upon psychic/psi energies does. And in my opinion those who says it does is just trying to be more important than another.
RuneI think that if sangs or psis want private spaces to speak about their similarities, that's all to the better. I also think that it's good for them to congregate within common space, so that they don't get all cliquish and exclusionary. However, I don't think vampirism is as simple as defining it as "psi" or "sang" or what have you. I think there are a lot of kinds of vampirism and I think that we need to be open-minded about what kinds there are, and how they work. Not so open a mind that our brains fall out, but still... we're still working on hypotheses right now, let's keep our options open.
<Vyrdolak>I have to admit that I'm kind of baffled at all the fuss this is causing.
<NyteMuse>I was initially against, but having heard from Sphynx and some of the other sangs, I have to admit there does seem to be a need for "safe space" as it were to discuss topics away from outsider naysayers. I would like to hope that there would still be SOME common meeting places for all "types", but I think the moderation might have to be more carefully done.
ThePinkLadyI can understand why blooddrinkers would want their own space to discuss matters that may put them in legal trouble.
<DeaconGray>I am all for the idea!
<NyteMuse>I wish there WASN'T a need for it, but, well...spilt milk and all.
<Sylvere>The question in my mind is whether or not such boards will exclude someone because s/he isn't of that specific "type" or isn't purely so. Take the proposed "sang only" forums.
<Sylvere>Will they exclude hybrids who prefer blood but can get by on psychic feeding when they can't get the red stuff? How about hybrids who need to feed both ways?
<Vyrdolak>When people started moving into the multi-forum boards, you got this trend of everyone wanting to be all things to all.
<Mikyla>I am too, Vyrdolak. I believe there is no reason to not have different groups for different feeding styles. The VampireChurch has long been established as a place for psi vampires as has Lono's board. Why not sangs, too?
<DeaconGray>Most I have talked too are sang focused, not sang only.
ThePinkLadyBut there's a lot of spin by blooddrinkers and energy consumers saying that one side wants to leave the other out.
<Sylvere>What about someone who doesn't drink blood but wants to learn and, in turn, pass information on to others?
<Vyrdolak>Before that, there were lots of psi-only forums and a few sang-only forums.
<Merticus>Yes, I'm not aware of a hybrid only forum - sub boards, yes.
<Sylvere>If you hole up, exclude everyone who isn't pure sang, and only write articles without ever participating in a mixed-company dialogue, how exactly is this beneficial?
<SphynxCatVP>I don't believe it would hinder anything to have "type specific" fora; needing to discuss things that may squick other people, share experiences that (in the case of sanguines) others might consider potentially illegal or - to a degree - frightening to those who don't deal with it.
<Sylvere>And how are you going to eliminate those who claim there is some genetic or organic basis for vampirism when the current science says there isn't?
<Sylvere>Is the goal to get more people to engage in medical testing and share the results in order to find a common thread or is it going to be a big circle jerk where you don't have to worry about anyone calling bullshit on the pseudoscience some people still wave around like it's Truth From On High?
<SphynxCatVP>We have a large number of shared/mixed fora today; sharing information is certainly not that hard to do.
<DeaconGray>Wow many type specific and exclusive forums are in operation...actively?
<Merticus>I'm currently editing a 60 page list Deacon... I should finish at some point this month.
<DeaconGray>Not just in operation, but are also active?
<Merticus>There are probably two dozen or so active forums in the OVC. (not counting Facebook, Yahoo Groups, Ning, etc.)
<Merticus>There is also a Sang-only Ning group at the moment.
ThePinkLady@Sphynx: A forum like that would need tight control and agreement among participants for legal safety. Not impossible, but difficult.
<Vyrdolak>Let's look at the key tension.
<Vyrdolak>A lot of people seem to want separate forums, at least as an option.
<Vyrdolak>and the chief objection is that others feel "excluded". But no one is saying, close the global forums, or that the non-included group can't have their own venues, too
<BoxDweller>If the community was directed into a more separate group situation, where would tantric vampires find themselves? There is always a debate on where the individuals who don't really fit fully into one group have to defend themselves within each forum.
<SphynxCatVP>*says dryly* Where people are getting the idea of end-result information will never be shared, I haven't got the foggiest clue.
<DeaconGray>Got one...sexual vampires.
ThePinkLady@Vyrdolak: I favor hands-on moderation over separate spaces. I think people drag the whole psy/sang thing out whenever they want to troll around or cause drama.
<DeaconGray>Me too PinkLady.
ThePinkLadyTo foster a community, you need people willing to be the bad guy so the space can exist for everyone.
<Vyrdolak>I favor hands-on moderation *everywhere*. But we're not looking at the underlying cause for this yearning for separate space.
<DeaconGray>People want to feel special...let them.
<Vyrdolak>What are the "separatists" not getting in global forums that they need? Heaping them with abuse for wanting a space isn't constructive.
ThePinkLady@Vyrdolak: To explore different types of vampirism, right?
<DeaconGray>They will soon run out of sang only topics, or psi only topics and end up at Vampire Community News (VCN) on Facebook.
<DeaconGray>You guys realize every time someone screams...we should have our own forum and we say GO for it...they never do.
<DeaconGray>Well perhaps not never... but who’s stopping them?
<Vyrdolak>Clearly it's not just to "explore". It's a question of affinity and feeling that they're not being heard, or are being judged, in global fora.