TMA05 Seminar 11.03.17 York St John

Today's seminar wasfocused on the questions for TMA05.

We discussed some key definitions (Block 5, p. 85 is the key place to look for these)

  • State:political organisation of an area/the apparatus of government of an area

N.B. inhabitants are more likely to be ‘citizens’ rather than ‘subjects’ now (though not in the UK of course…)

  • Nation:cultural attributes and identity
  • Nationalism:recognition of a common identity
  • Nation-state:the idea that a nation should govern itself

Note: Napoleon tried to ‘construct’ a nation in France via the imposition of a single standardised French language and single systems of currency, weights and measures.

Some other definitions appear on page 51 of the textbook, and on page 19 of the module companion:

  • Citizen
  • Class in the eighteenth century – the aristocracy, the middling sort, and the labouring poor
  • Class in the nineteenth century – aristocracy, middle class and working class
  • Class in Marxist terms/ - the bourgeoisie and proletariat

How different is this to the medieval notion of a state in Block 1?

  • The medieval state was not limited to a ‘nation’. E.g. Think about the diverse areas ruled by Henry V or the Duke of Burgundy.
  • Feudalism
  • Three estates – clergy, nobility and the people
  • Dominated by the aristocracy

We talked about the changes in responsibilities, rights and duties in the feudal system compared to the nineteenth century. There was a lack of freedom, but people were not abandoned to starve by their feudal lords (as a rule), as long as they toed the line….

We also discussed the CHANGES which occurred in the nineteenth century:

  • Improvements in agriculture led to fewer people being needed to produce crops and animals (this contributed to the many of the population’s move from rural to urban residence)
  • Industrialisation also led many people to move from the country to the towns – that was where the work was.
  • Town dwelling led to changes in community – ties generally became weaker between people who lived close to each other, people lived anonymously in towns, compared to strong tightly knit rural communities in the past.
  • Urbanisation also led to hideously unsanitary and crowded living conditions for very many people
  • Town dwelling also meant that self-sufficiency re food was not possible for the poorest people in society
  • Industrialisation also led to the loss of status as ’breadwinners’, and a reduction in pay-rates due to the rise in the employment of cheaper women and children
  • Industrialisation also led to less ‘humane’ working conditions for very many people –men, women and children - compared to cottage industries in the past.
  • Rise of trade unionism (as an alternative to medieval craft guilds), but these were banned by law in England and other places.
  • Increase of capitalist trends of boom and bust led to insecurity re employment (e.g. Merthyr Tydfil in 1831)
  • Rise of the consumer society
  • Changes in religion
  • The possibility of cheap fast travel (e.g. by toll roads or later by train) also led to anonymity.
  • Rise of Chartism – and the call for votes for all men over 21 (and other things too – see Anthology p. 346 for a list of the Six Points). The Great Reform Act of 1832 (textbook p. 12) is also a factor here.

‘Modernity’is just as important in this block as it was in the last one. For more details of these definitions, see the Module Companion, pp. 18-19, and textbook, p. 13. Modernity can be associated with:

  • The development of capitalism
  • ‘Middle class’ and ‘working class’ are now acceptable terms (re earlier periods, we referred to ‘the genteel or middling class’ and ‘the labouring poor’)
  • Industrialisation
  • Secularisation
  • Individualism
  • The development of liberalism and democracy
  • The emergence of the nation state

We discussed 'national identities' - ours!

I think of myself as British and European, or maybe English with a little bit of Welsh in there… and I would define ‘Britishness’ today as being very diverse, with lots of different cultures, though perhaps stereotypical British culture would be a bit like John Major’s nostalgic speech to the Conservative Group for Europe on 22.4.1993: "Fifty years on from now, Britain will still be the country of long shadows on county grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and - as George Orwell said 'old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist". And that is odd as I don’t play cricket, own a dog or particularly value the habit of going to church (or talking about certain women as ‘old maids’).

But at the same time, we considered issues about whether most people from England think of themselves as English only. It was an interesting change from last year’s group that now, the two terms are used quite differently – maybe in the aftermath of the referendum, or because people have lived in Scotland, or further afield.

Look at the kind of relationship between nation and state being suggested and portrayed by document 5.9 as an ideal way of organising an area… Metternich is anxious about notions of equality, of democracy, of freedom of the press, and of people making up their own minds.

He wants people to return to the old pre-Napoleon ways: deference, obedience, (and arguably, ignorance) – because that will support a return to elitist government, and to aristocratic dominance of the lower classes. Think about his tone and style – it’s rather sneering, as if the working classes were unable to think for themselves. Thus, the idea of political legitimacy is an idea which he seems to reject. Political legitimacy is the result of democracy: the idea is that people (by which term they meant not ‘people’, but ‘men’ at that time) only have to obey laws which they have had some part in framing - even if that part is as small as having the option to cast a vote to choose a representative in parliament every five years.

Ernest Renan(doc.5.21) defines a nation, mostly by what ‘nationhood’ is not:

  • Language
  • Race/blood/ancestry (there is no racist connotation here)
  • Forefathers were located here – several generations’ of residence
  • Religion
  • Traditions/culture
  • Geographical barriers and boundaries
  • Language

He says that national feeling is to do with ‘soul’…

This led to the idea of Romanticism (which is different to romanticism). Cultural Romanticism was 'a movement that swept Europe in the period 1775-1830, the aims of which included a return to nature, a belief in the goodness of humanity, the development of nationalistic pride and the exaltation of the senses and emotion over reason and intellect' (Block 5, p. 90). E.g. Friedrich and Herder. Emotion is valued – and ideas are expressed in emotional terms e.g. inRichard Oastler’s article (doc. 5.20), which raises issues re modernity, British values, slavery, Yorkshire pride etc., in highly emotional language.

We also looked at Marx’s ideas in doc 5.16, and considered some of the problems regarding its two-class definition of society – the working class, and everyone else.

And that, I think, was about it. If anyone has any questions about any of the above, please get in touch.

Regards

Polly Ann