Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Act 2007

Voluntary Sector Issues Group (VSIG) 2 September 2008

Conference Room 11, Victoria Quay, Edinburgh

Attendees:

Moira Oliphant (Chair), Safer Children Stronger Families, Scottish Government

Donna McLean, Safer Children, Stronger Families, Scottish Government

David Roy, Safer Children, Stronger Families, Scottish Government

Dave McLeod, Adult Care and Support, Health Directorate, Scottish Government

Dougie Arneil, Scottish Sports Association

Peter Brawley, Scottish Personal Assistant Employers Network

Fiona Campbell, Voluntary Arts Scotland

Jim Duffy, Scottish Scouts Association

Nancy Fancott, SCVO

Judith Gillespie, Scottish Parent Teacher Council

Kirsten Gooday, Community Care Providers Scotland

John Harris, CRBS

Andrew Jackson, WRVS

Jackie McCaig, The Bishops’ Conference of Scotland

Jennifer McCreanor, Church of Scotland

Brian Robertson, Apex Scotland

Welcome, Introductions and Apologies:

1. The Chair welcomed members to the 10th meeting of the Voluntary Sector Issues Group and informed members that Gina Nowak will be replacing Margaret McLeod as a representative from Youthlink. However, Gina was not able to attend this meeting today. Kathleen McInulty is now seconded to the Scottish Government to work with Moira and would no longer be the Children 1st representative on the group. Apologies were received from Alex Cole-Hamilton, Gina Nowak, Richard Crosse, Leah Granat and Jan Murray.

Minutes of Meeting on 18June2008:

2. The minutes of the last meeting were agreed with no amendments.

Matters arising:

3. Ministerial response to the consultation paper: will be published and widely available before next meeting of VSIG, hopefully within the next few weeks. The Ministerial response is likely to be accompanied by a press release and will be put on the Scottish Government’s website.

Protected adults:

4. Dave McLeod distributed to members in-confidence a copy of the draft SSI on prescribed welfare services. It will be the responsibility of the organisations to decide who is doing regulated work with adults. If individuals provide any prescribed health services they are providing services for protected adults and are therefore in regulated work with adults. There is no question of portability of protected adult status. For example, an individual is a protected adult whilst they are receiving a service from their GP and are no longer a protected adult when they stop receiving that service. The GP will be in regulated work. Regulated work will not cover self-help groups as they are not formalised but informal, facilitated and supported.

5. A definition of "advice" was sought. Will advice on financial services fall within the definition of advice? DMcL informed members that an organisation has got to decide if individuals within their organisation are carrying out regulated work with protected adults. If this is not the case financial support services will be excluded from the definition. It was also asked whether spiritual advice will be incorporated into the definition. DMcL said that he would consider. He said that he is happy to continue to take comments and views from members and informed them that there will be a consultation on this draft Statutory Instrument. NOTE: DMcL has since confirmed that spiritual advice is a component of advice generally as affirmed by the then Minister during passage of the Bichard Bill.

Regulated work with children and with adults

In-confidence in advance of publication of Ministerial response:

6. The Chair confirmed that Ministers want to tighten up Schedules 2 and 3 and will be making amendments as necessary. The Parent Council amendment to PoCSA will be carried over to PVG with necessary adjustments. The Chair informed members that there is a need for a proportionate approach but that disclosure and scheme membership has an important role. Those who work directly with vulnerable groups (and some others) should be scheme members. Organisations have a responsibility to ensure that appropriate safety measures are in place short of scheme membership, for example, escorting those who deliver goods to a school on and off the premises.

7. Those who are in a position of trust within establishments should be in regulated work and all others need to be managed in different ways. If these measures are taken this will enhance the protection of vulnerable groups rather than dilute it. There was broad support from members as disclosure checks are often seen as a “comfort blanket.” Safe practice means organisations make a conscious and active decision about how best to protect vulnerable groups

8. It was necessary to ensure the right approach in relation to charity trustees. The Chair was grateful to the member who raised the issues previously in his paper. Should a decision be made that only those who make appointments (of those in regulated work) are in regulated work, there might be an unintended consequence of charities saying all trustees are making the appointments. In some charities the Chief Executive makes the appointments. Others making appointments outwith the charity trustee scenario would not be in regulated work therefore this would not be a consistent approach throughout all organisations.

9. It was asked whether or not we could specify one member of the charity who must be in regulated work? It was stated that in the Church of Scotland the responsibility for recruitment and making the final decision falls to a board rather than an individual. Every church is a charity therefore, every elder in every church would as a result be considered to be in regulated work. Should we consider individuals in regulated work if they ratify appointments/make recruitment decisions in children's and adults' charities even if they are not a trustee? Also those who do the same in other children's and adults' organisations. The Chair will further consider these points.

Cross Border Issues:

10. This paper sets out the cross border arrangements as they currently stand. There is much intensive work on-going on cross border issues. Our aim is to ensure any cross-border interaction is as straightforward as possible, especially for scheme members. The question was raised of whether an individual who is not a scheme member in Scotland (for example, because of ad hoc work with children), who then accompanies a group of children to England, be considered in regulated activity in the rest of UK on the condition that he meets the period condition (say working 3 days within a month)? An example might be a linesman at a football match. The Chair stated that she would report back on this issue when she is in a position to do so.

Capacity building support:

11. John Harris informed members that more than 20 individuals have expressed an interest in being trainers. However, more places are available. The first meeting of the training group will be held at the end of September if possible. This will be the first stage of awareness raising around PVG and it is intended to have around 60 events before March although timescales may alter. John informed members that one VSIG member has volunteered to be a “critical friend” to raise appropriate questions. It is intended that the VSIG will see draft guidance early next year and full guidance will be available around 6 months prior to go-live. It was asked whether funding will be made available to organisations to help in the distribution of this guidance. DR stated that it was too soon to say however, he will consider this further. It was stated that it is important that guidance is available in plenty of time to allow people to get used to any changes.

Communications update including PVG Implementation fact sheet:

12. DR informed members that there will be more fact sheets available in the coming months. Members welcomed this information. He also informed members that the Scottish Government are considering running another series of events. It was asked whether the development of forms will be included in project 3 on process and system development. There was a suggestion that there had been problems with Disclosure forms for registered bodies and the problems could not be fixed because the IT spec had been set. Will this be consulted on? The Chair informed members that there was a project on forms and she would speak to the project lead.

AOCB:

13. The Chair advised the group that Claire Monaghan, Deputy Director, Safer Children, Stronger Families and Senior Responsible Officer for implementation of PVG was moving on to head up Curriculum for Excellence. Her replacement would be Lesley Fraser arriving in October.

14. Dave McLeod informed the Group that the Adult Support and Protection Act will come into force on 29 October 2008.

Date of next meeting:

15. The next meeting of the Voluntary Sector Issues Group will be on 4November2008.

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