MINUTES of the WELDING ARTICULATION COMMITTEE
BCIT Burnaby
Town Square D – SE2 Building, Room 214
May 31, 2005 – June 1, 2005
Welding Articulation Meeting Participants:
CWA – National Industry Representatives - CWB Group
Welding Articulation Public and Private Instructors
Institutional chairs representing Multiple Programs
BCATTA – SLP
BCCAT
Queen’s Printer
Motions
1. MOVED by Fred Berg, SECONDED by Bud Beeman that the welding articulation chair negotiate an agreement between BCATTA, Queen’s Printer, ITA and the welding articulation group, to implement a percentage maintenance fee attached to the sale of welding modules for the purpose of raising funds that can be used the help pay for welding module revisions and updates.
CARRIED
2. MOVED by Sheldon Frank, SECONDED by Colin Makiev
THAT the WAC direct Queen’s Printer, effective July 1, 2005, to levy a maintenance fee of 20% on all welder training curriculum in British Columbia, this fee to be used for the sole purpose of maintaining, updating and revising the welding curriculum of British Columbia.
CARRIED
3. MOVED by Peter Haigh, SECONDED by Al Wood
THAT WAC support in principle the initiative that Kwantlen College is taking with going to an academic model for its Welding Program
DEFEATED
4. MOVED by Bud Beeman, SECONDED by Peter Haigh
THAT the logo be approved as presented
CARRIED
5. MOVED by Fred Berg, SECONDED by Shuji Tabata
THAT a subcommittee of WAC be created to develop the structure, policy and procedures required to administrate the funds collected from the maintenance levy attached to the sale of the welding curriculum.
CARRIED
6. MOVED by Fred Berg, SECONDED by Colin Makeiv
THAT a subcommittee of WAC (the Welding Curriculum Revision Committee) be created to manage curriculum updates and revisions.
CARRIED
7. MOVED by Gordon Gallacher, SECONDED by Don Morrison
THAT WAC support the principle of the registration requirement of work experience between technical training levels according to the Registration Levels section of the Welder’s Log Book.
CARRIED
8. MOVED by Fred Berg, SECONDED by Bud Beeman
THAT WAC recommend the following:
1) That the historical guidelines for C,B and A Challenge Testing be adhered to (and that a C Level candidate be required to successfully complete the theory portion prior to the practical challenge test). The purpose of a challenge test is to place an unregistered welder into the C,B and A system.
2) Once registered at any level, the welder must normally complete the same requirements as any other welder.
3) ITC Threshold guidelines must be adhered to, as outlined in the “General Information and Guidelines for Welder Registration and Testing Applications”.
4) For all levels (C,B and A), the theory portion of the challenge test shall be completed before the practical test can be undertaken. This guideline is based on safety and liability considerations of the college or institution.
5) Once the theory test is successfully completed, the ITC will issue a letter authorizing the challenge of the practical portion of the test
6) The purpose of a challenge test is to assess skill, and not to provide welder upgrading prior to testing.
CARRIED
9. MOVED by Roger Moren, SECONDED by Jim Carson
THAT WAC strongly request that the ITC Certification Officer attend the annual Welding Articulation Committee Meeting.
CARRIED
10. MOVED by Greg Burkett, SECONDED by Jim Carson
THAT WAC look into getting its welding curriculum audited by the IIW, to see how much, if any, change would be required to become accredited by that organization.
CARRIED
Meeting began at 8:45am
Welcome and Introduction
A sign-in sheet was circulated, and is attached to these minutes.
Shuji Tabata MOVED, Bud Beeman SECONDED
THAT the minutes of the last meeting be accepted inclusive of a change of Gerry Lengert’s presentation to Wednesday, 9am and new business – Sheldon Frank wants to talk about final exam
CARRIED
Approval of minutes of last meeting
Don Morrison MOVED, Greg Burkett SECONDED
THAT the Minutes of the last meeting be accepted as distributed.
CARRIED
e-mail working well, get yourself on the list if you’re not already
Minutes will be circulated via e-mail
Chair’s Report
(Distributed at the meeting). Read by Les Wiebe. Agreed to stay on as Chair.
Greg Burkett MOVED, Shuji Tabata SECONDED
THAT the chair’s report be accepted as read.
Old Business
Plaque updated.
Everyone should try to provide as much info as possible to assist in keeping this accurate.
Approval of last year’s minutes – new format, clearer than before. Inclusive of all stakeholders, identified at the top. More representation the better. Minutes have motions as they came up. Motions on front page so action is evident immediately.
Bob Hiltz and Al Wood welcomed Kwantlen College
Chair announced that Thompson Rivers has become a university. Handed out pins to celebrate.
Chair summarized correspondence from Keith Edwards (attached) who was unable to attend.
Don’t hesitate to call him if necessary or drop by his office.
Letter to Don Gillingham handed out. Written in response to minutes from last meeting. Don unable to give clear help on some of the issues. Les handed out correspondence received from Don Gillingham, who is stepping down, indicating there is a rebuilding of the training system in process (and in a state of confusion). Maybe Ralph can enlighten later on.
So no clear support from Don, but indicated he recognized uniqueness of welding program and more to curriculum building than using the Alberta guides. HE felt we were better off to revise our own guides. Dean’s group said there was no funding for curriculum development but a challenge to find another way. Need to know we’re on a positive path to move this ahead.
Minutes from meeting held at Fraser Valley handed out.
Welding Articulation Committee Data handed out.
Letter from Gerry Lengert at Kwantlen handed out, which included highlights of proposed new program.
Lou Bonin reported on the RK9-2 development program his is working on – Welder Training Program Level A (handed out). Wants to simplify some of the trigonometry programs to be more calculator-friendly. Sheldon suggested that the welder fitter program has done some of the work for that section. Will circulate that. Les indicated that we want to get this material into the system.
Al (Kwantlen) has only had one response (from Greg) in reply to his request. Rod Walters produced final manual (P4-6). This is on CD and will be circulated. Manual has been used over the last year by Rod / Al with good success. Encourages students to record. It’s a good start.
Les indicated this would be distributed.
Don Morrison asked if Queen’s Printer would print this now? Les: we’ll create some direction. Al (K): still wanting feedback; uncertain whether to go to print. Still need more feedback.
Welder Fitting Skills program has been produced – changes will be able to be made more easily. Sheldon Frank passed out before/after Welder Fitting Skills. Motion at previous meeting suggesting that Sheldon / Greg take this to Queen’s Printer to put into module form. Copy of Greg’s book (with stickies) given to Queen’s Printer. Designed logo, cleaned up front cover – handed out some choices. Colour on main cover of every module. Corrected typos. Added photos. Math module completely revamped. Fixed incorrect references to modules. Proposal to look at CB&A as well. Also a proposal to get paid for this work. (professionally). Greg Burkett thanked Sheldon and commended the new product. This grew out of the material that Bob had developed years ago.
BCATTA Representative – Ralph Finch
Great to see what’s happening with Welding Articulation. This group is to be commended in the way it has come together. Will convey to BCATTA that WA group is alive and well. Hearing good ideas and great initiatives. Will be best support he can for WA. Cannot attend the meeting tomorrow. Need the chairs for the BCATTA meetings. Great to see this group moving ahead and leading the way.
Roger: Glad to see Ralph back on board. Don Morrison echoed that sentiment. Ralph: had a meeting last week with Jeff Stevens re contribution agreement (contract, to be signed by ITA). Was a little concerned when he saw the draft, but felt comfortable after meeting with Jeff. Stressed that no playing with numbers in the program. Will be meetings with each institution. Hinting that entry level training programs will be funded for 6 months. Has documentation encouraging us to go to 6 months, as that’s level of funding to be received. Ralph committed that, at BCATTA, (wants chairs of Articulation Committees there) …Could be asked to have a look at some 7 month programs and asked to deliver in 6. Fred: Is there recognition of increased costs to deliver program? Ralph indicated he knew that. Has program manager doing a takeoff now. Recognizes its significantly more expensive to deliver a program now. New VP, Mark Everett, has medical background, knows nothing about trades. Need to talk to him about the cost of the programs. He seems to appreciate the high costs to deliver. Bud indicated programs have been cut. Shuji Tabata conducted a survey re delivering Level C program in 6 months – no one felt this was possible. Sheldon Frank asked if ITA realized that reduced programs mean reduced skills. Ralph has suggested that we listen to PAC’s and keep them active. Believes they’re listening to industry. Talking about ELTT portion of Level C (norm 7 months for many years, but no reason to think it’s not under review). Al asked if Ralph was aware of any college offering program in 6 months or less? No one was aware of any such program. Some in cell-based programs finish in 6 months, but 7 months is norm. Ralph said ITA will review ELTT programs to look at accreditation for Levels 1-4 apprenticeship. ITA wants consistency. Moving away from FTE terminology; will be referred to as Participants. Funding will be per Participant. Need special meeting. Tim indicated that this group all seems to be on same page, at 7 months. HD and CT are all across the board – shortest is PG with 6 months; longest (more diesel engine) at VCC is 12 months). Can extend to back to back, Level I and Level II. Will not look at Welder Fitter as part of ELTT course. If you add the two, they’ll look at ELTT as whole 9 months. Can push to get some extra time because of the Level II training. Ralph suggest strategy of having Welder C and Welder Fitter be dealt with separately. Strength in standardization. This committee has voice. Can declare that it takes months. BCATTA will work 100% with each appropriate articulation committee. Would hope that we all understand variance in self-paced programs. We have a good product that’s meeting the needs of the Province. Ray: looking at program in Heavy duty & commercial transport. SVI convention is Thursday/Friday of this week. Good chance for insider information.
Les: Welding program understood throughout the Province. Understand C, B A and know it’s strong. We are industry, as much as industry is. We are connected on a daily basis through testing and upgrading, so we have a strong voice, and we should keep it that way. Chair will write letter defending the 7 months program if that’s necessary. Ralph understands the background and the strength of this committee.
Peter Haigh joined the meeting
NOA booklet circulated. Please study, because we want to base our welding program on that.
Sherry Brown (Director of Publications, Queen’s Printer) / Sheldon Frank
All BC Trades and Alberta learning modules. Sells office products; has distribution services.
Government publications Index, eg FoodSafe secretariat – replicated with other organizations. Maintenance fee added to cost of FoodSafe material, so they can develop their program. Working with Sheldon to do this sort of thing to help with Welding Program curriculum development. Similar system in Alberta ($1.50 charge per module on their curriculum sales, to fund updates).
Motion made June 1 2004 (attached) and letter of support from Don Gillingham who is in support. Projected maintenance fees schedule distributed (attached). Based on Experience, Sherry didn’t feel the 17% fee is unreasonable. Alberta has v. small booklets and charges per booklet. They’ve been collecting $50,000 per quarter. For instance, the Welder Fitter booklet being worked on with Sheldon is much less costly. There is opportunity to look at increasing the sales. Attractive thing about Alberta modules is that they have a current curriculum. Can increase sales. Sheldon pointed out that 20% comes to $______?. Thinks it’s realistic to consider this program, and there is a lot of opportunity here. Open Learning Agency. Bookstores purchase then mark up. There is an option to have students buy directly from Queen’s Printer, but that’s not popular with College bookstores. Sheldon compared some prices for other trade programs within his college. All programs much higher. If there was a decision made to have students buy directly, then difference could go to this committee. Queen’s Printer is not for profit. There are some issues for students purchasing from Queen’s Printer – eg. No Visa or Interac. Sheldon: we can’t worry about what bookstores will do. Percentage system works better than surcharge. Went around the room for opinions.