MINUTES OF THE CRM STANDING GROUP

Aviation House 17th July 2009

Present:

Mrs. Nicole Svatek (NS) Chairman

Capt. Charlie Cantan (CC)

Ms. Sarah Skelton (SS) (CRMSG)

Mr. Rick Heybreok (RH)

Sqd. Ldr. Mike Stanway (MS)

Apologies:

Mr. Pieter Hemsley (PH)

Capt. Rick Newson (RN)

Capt. Simon Turner (ST)

Mr. John Dunne (JD)

Capt. Roger Benison (RB)

Capt. David Cockburn (DC)

Copy to:

Mr. Sid Adcock Emeritus Member

Mr. Johan Lindvall Corresponding Member

Capt. Norman Komich Corresponding member

Agenda

1.  Apologies for absence

2.  Review minutes last meeting 26th March 2009

3.  Feedback and review RSSB Conference

4.  Video shop/CAA designated individual

5.  Members’ feedback on Helios HF work-up

6.  Letter to Flight International

7.  Human/automation interface modern aircraft

8.  A.O.B.

Item 1.

Apologies for absence

Item 2.

Review of last minutes, 26th March 2009

The minutes were reviewed and approved.

Outstanding action item from previous meetings: RN to invite Simon Roberts, CAA (Regional Manager), responsible for SMS Oversight to attend next CRMSG.

The CAA has delayed the deadline for the implementation of SMS (see power point reference on CAA website) however, it would seem from anecdotal feedback that the airlines have not been provided with any specific requirement or guidance as to how much or what HF should be included in their SMS programme or manuals... The Group expressed concern that there is no longer a designated individual with overall responsibility for HF at the CAA. It is therefore a matter of urgency that we exploit this ‘window of opportunity’ and meet with the manager responsible for SMS in order to open a dialogue and assist the CAA with HF requirements for all operators. In the meanwhile, and in order to establish the current status of the SMS amongst the various airlines, it was decided to send out a brief questionnaire to their respective Safety Managers. (attached as appendix). This will assist the Group in deciding a way forward.

Action:

RN to invite Simon Roberts to next meeting, 17th. September

SS to send out questionnaires

Item 3.

Feedback and review/RSSB Conference 21st. May 2009

The Conference was over-subscribed and enjoyed a truly outstanding degree of success. The variety of speakers from different professions worked extremely well and feedback was very, very positive… which gave rise to the question, ‘where do we go from here?’ The RSSB relied heavily on RH for the organising and staging of the conference and perhaps assumed that this situation would continue. However, it was made clear to the RSSB at the outset that whilst the CRMSG would be happy to midwife the birth of their CRM roll-out, this was not a long-term commitment, particularly as our time is volunteered. To date the RSSB has not officially contacted the CRMSG with regards to a debrief on the conference or a discussion regarding the continuation of the subgroup. They have, however, contacted CRMSG members privately for advice on aviation policy in various matters. As the RSSB continues to seek our help without respecting the protocol, it was decided that, for an organisational approach, request should go through the HFG and commercial advice should be organised by the individual involved.

Action:

None

Item 4.

Video shop/CAA designated individual

It was noted, without irony, that every time somebody leaves the CAA, the project seems to suffer. Furthermore, whilst CC has encountered great enthusiasm from the various safety and HF managers he has contacted, he has stopped calling to remind them after the third or fourth time for fear of being labelled a stalker. RH confirms that we do indeed have some interesting material and that there is now a streaming facility on our server. He has acquired a budget from the HFG (for stream formatting) and now plans to download three initial films onto the site and observe what activity they generate. Hopefully this solution will bypass previous reliance on CAA manpower/ support. Publicity: RAeS website and link.

Actions:

RH to start streaming

CC to provide RH with whatever he has to date

SS to request IRE/TRE debriefing training videos from Colin Budenberg

Item 5.

Members’ feedback on Helios HF work-up

The CRMSG’s HF report on Helios was submitted to the HFG at the last meeting. It was quickly apparent that each Group had extracted different aspects from the event and the HFG is now in the process of consolidating them into a whole. It was noted that this accident has already been used by most of the major airlines and, from the cabin crew aspect, this has given rise to some useful changes in decompression training, e.g. rapid decompression versus depressurisation. However, it was agreed that not enough emphasis is placed on the reasons why events unfold, or tracing a chain of events in order to identify the most robust decision to break them. We are moving away from addressing the reasons that give rise to CRM failures in the first place. “CRM training is becoming more and more proceduralised” and, “the problem with proceduralised CRM is that because it doesn’t actually address the problem, we continue to have the problem”. This matter needs to be addressed at the next HFG meeting and with the Advisory Panel.

Action:

NS to follow up with HFG and Advisory Panel

Item 6.

Letter to Flight International

Many thanks to all the Group members who offered their input and editorial advice. The final draft was forwarded to the secretary of the HFG who sent it to all the relevant media under the HFG letterhead. There has been no response to date nor has the letter been printed in Flight International. The secretary will follow up shortly.

Action:

NS to remind HFG secretary

Item 7.

Human/automation interface on modern aircraft.

RH reported that there are no major research initiatives going on currently and SS reported that the debatable standard of presentations at the recent Human Factors Design for Safety conference was not geared toward the live-ware component! Feedback from various Group members would indicate that the airlines are addressing automation issues. A discussion ensued regarding the differences between the new, ‘digital’ pilots and the older, analogue pilots sitting beside them. The FAA has not followed up on the seminal work produced by Kathy Abbott twelve years ago and obviously, the current economic climate is not conducive to investigating this area in the near future. However, it is worth remembering that as the earliest iteration of fly-by-wire start to age, just as surely as they introduced a new generation of technology, they will introduce a new generation of failures. This is a subject that deserves a watching brief.

Item 8.

AOB

CC booked to see TAG at Farnborough and learn more from them about their single seat operations, SOPs and training.

RH suggested that a conference on the human side of crisis response, e.g. for those people who deal with the families, relatives, victims etc. has not been done and could be interesting and of real benefit. The Group wholeheartedly endorsed this proposal and it was agreed to work towards holding the event in early spring 2010.

.

NEXT MEETINGS

Thursday, 17th September

Thursday, 10th December

Time and venue as usual, 1330 @ Aviation House. It would be helpful if all members could make a note of these dates early which might help avoid later conflicts.

Please Note: next meeting, Thursday 17th. September, 2009

Nicole Svatek

20th July 2009

01273 738169

Appendix to item 2.

Proposed questions to SMS or Safety Managers

As the implementation of SMS has been delayed, this has provided the CRMSG with an opportunity to consider how HF might be best included and embraced within an Operations safety system.

We would be grateful if you would take a few moments to answer the following questions and offer any additional thoughts you may have.

1.  At what stage of development is your company’s SMS?

2.  Does it include reference to CRM/HF?

3.  If so, what are those references?

4.  What areas of your organisation are covered in your SMS with reference to HF?

5.  Does your SMS describe HF hazards as they apply to different department environments?

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