Mestre João Grande:
“I am an adventurer, a traveler, I enjoy traveling the world.”
“Eu sou a fruta madura
que cai do pé lentamente
Na queda larga a semente
Procura uma terra fresca
pra ser fruta novamente”.
(Bule-Bule)
I am a ripe fruit
Falling slowly from the tree
The impact spreads my seeds
Looking for fertile earth
To be fruit once again
It was 1990. That was the year I arrived, and I stayed. I’ve liked it here ever since. It was God who brought me here, who put me here. Capoeira is growing here because it used to be unknown. Mestre Pastinha would say, “Whoever does not know capoeira, doesn’t know to give the value that it has.” [The people of the U.S.] didn’t know that capoeira was like this.
Now the people are getting to know the true capoeira. The true capoeira is a good thing that you do. But everything done correctly, so that it can be seen that capoeira is good and not a business of troublemakers, of drunkards, of wrong things in the midst. I like everything done properly. That is true capoeira. I like to do capoeira as my mestre taught it; I do everything here like my mestre taught me. I don’t do anything wrong; everything that I do here is from my mestre, and there are [also] many things here that I created.
I created many movements here, difficult ones. My work in capoeira is different from all the other mestres, and it has been ever since I lived in Brazil. This was already developed when I had been doing capoeira for three years – I trained to do things differently from everyone else.
The game in Mestre Pastinha [in his academy] was different from the way it is here. There, we trained by playing berimbau and doing the movement. I was the one who created this thing of coming and going, of putting the students in pairs to do movement. Because there are lots of people here and if we train in roda, it will take a long time for everyone to play. I do the movements to use in the roda. Because all the movements that I do here are to show [how to use them] while playing with another person. Many forget this.
Students enter the academy every day here. They enter, they take class, they leave, they come back again. Everything in Portuguese. I am the one who teaches them capoeira; I teach them to speak Portuguese too. English was never needed here. Risadinha herself is English, she didn’t speak any Portuguese, she learned to speak here with me. “Mestre, is that good?” “No, the word is like this, like this…” and there you go. To speak Portuguese cleanly.
One, two, three. If the person doesn’t know how to play instruments, I teach them. Movements – if they don’t know, I teach them. People come here from Japan and from every part of the world. Every part of the world comes here. Japanese students come here who speak neither English nor Portuguese. They spend two months here, and they leave doing everything – making berimbau, making caxixi, knowing the names of the instruments, doing the movements. Even speaking a bit of Portuguese.
Everything can’t be taught at once. It happens little by little. In other words, it’s like teaching a child to walk. Teaching a child to walk is like this: hold the child, slowly, slowly, slowly, until she knows how to put her foot on the ground slowly, walk, walk. Then you tell her to sit, and she sits. Get up, come here again. That’s how it is, very slowly. That’s how a student is taught, just like a child. Because there are basic movements. The basic movements are the ginga, negativa, rolê. Ginga, sapinho, chapa. Sapinho, chapa, rolê. Ginga, passagem de perna. Ginga, corta capim, passagem de perna. All of them have the rolê movement. Corta capim, rolê. There are movements like this. One has to secure the base. After getting the base on the ground, then we go to aú, negativa. Aú, negativa, rolê. And then exiting aú in rolê. Then comes meia lua de frente, another meia lua de frente, now meia lua de costas. After doing all this, I test the student, asking, what is ginga, whatis negativa, what is sapinho, what is passagem de perna, what is rolê? After knowing all this, then we go to rabo de arraia. So the student keeps growing.
Here there is cabaça, there is verga, there is arame, there is material for making caxixis, there is everything here. I make instruments and I teach my students to make them. There are few Brazilian students. If there are ten, it’s a lot.
I really like New York. I love it here… everything. I like everything here… I know few Brazilians here. But those who I know are all good, they all come here. On Sundays this place is full of capoeiristas from all over. They all come to play capoeira here. Because we have to treat our country well. If I am here, I have to treat well whoever comes from there to here. We treat anyone from any country well here. Whether Brazilian, or African, or from any country, they must be treated well, since we are brothers.
Capoeira grew because it is good for one’s health. Mestre Pastinha said: “Capoeira Angola is to be sown in the whole world.” Therefore, I am raising it in the whole world.
Sad, that was a sad thing. Very tough. Right here close by – a horrible thing. When the towers fell, I was here giving class, the Tuesday class, they phoned me and when I turned on the television the other building was burning, and one had already fallen. A sad thing. Many people died, and it shook the whole world. An ugly tragedy.
Capoeira is for peace. If there’s a fight in the roda, I won’t go to that roda anymore. There’s no point to beating each other up. If you have your roda and an outsider appears to cause trouble, it’s wrong. It’s a lack of respect. No one sticks around to watch a fight-like game. People want to see a beautiful game, not a beating. To see a fight, you can go to the movies and watch Kung Fu.
The young capoeiristas must follow capoeira as a dance, not as a martial art, and come together in order to grow capoeira, whether Regional or Angola. To grow because if you step out of line, if you don’t do it with a clean heart, capoeira will never grow. Fighting never grows capoeira. Nothing grows with fighting.
A place where there is no respect can have no progress. Right? No progress. For capoeira to grow... anywhere the capoeira is full of beatings, no one goes. They’ll go watch, and then never come back. If you have a daughter, you won’t put her there to learn, and to see her get beaten up. Pay money to have your son learn capoeira there and see him get beaten up. This is a lack of respect. Lack of respect. They’re paying to train, not to fight. If someone is doing something wrong, call their attention and let them know. You have to do it this way. Here, no one hits anyone. Mestre Pastinha didn’t like violence. No one beats up anyone, everyone wears white clothing. This is teaching. No one learns by getting beaten up. No one enjoys getting beaten up.
I take care of the Academy. The financial aspects, Risadinha takes care of those. I live in #66, in her house, in her apartment. She is married and has a little boy, Lázaro, que é meu afilhado. God sent her from heaven for me. God and my orixás sent her to me, to help me here.
Risadinha. She has helped me and fought for me here. She is English, but has lived here for 20 years. She is a student here, she worked, paid for a lawyer, got my documents and everything. Got my green card. I sleep in Risadinha’s house and I come here. She got me a diploma there where she works; she sent a letter to the director to get me a doctorate. She gave me a doctorate, she gave me various things. She helps me in everything. She also made an application for the thing the government gave me. The president gave me a plaque. It took a year and a half to complete the process, which was started in 2002. I was at the doctor’s. She called, wanting to speak with me. Nana picked up. She said that in an hour the man from the government wanted to speak with me.
Jurandir came, João Pequeno came, Moraes came, also two of my daughters... I paid for the tickets and everything, but they gave permission to be able to enter. Risadinha called. I invited Moraes, João Pequeno, Jurandir, my two daughters, Gildo Alfinete and Frede Abreu, who are good people.
The person at the door is the one who collects payments from the students of the academy. I give the money to Risadinha. She pays taxes, pays the government, pays for everything; I like everything done properly. I don’t like “hidden business” at all. Business should be out in the open. I don’t like enrolacao. I like everything done properly. Risadinha isn’t my associate, no. She helps me. She has her own job; she is a video professor. Her husband is a computer mechanic. She pays everything, taxes, everything, everything, everything. A little money is left over to pay for the space. Everything has to be paid for here. Very little is left over. Little money. Before it was less expensive… but now everything is expensive.
Everything I earn here goes towards paying the rent and the bills. I don’t go out to spend money. As for food, I eat right here, I don’t like eating out on the street. I don’t eat salt. I lead a simple life, I spend all my time in the academy, I only leave sometimes. People come to visit every day. Sometimes there are 3 or 4 visitors here. If the phone rings, I have to answer it. There’s also the dance class that uses the other room in the academy. It’s very little… but little with God is much.
Everything here is very expensive. And here in Manhattan, everything is more expensive than anywhere else. Living here is extremely expensive. I pay $5,000 in rent, besides the taxes, fees and utilities. Very expensive.
Having an academy, when there are lots of students, is more worth it. Traveling a lot is tiring. Sometimes you earn well, other times no. One great place to visit is Japan. When I go to Japan I take a suitcase full of videos, t-shirts, and everything gets sold there. In Europe I sell very little.
I have groups in Belgrade, in Los Angeles, in Italy, and also in Hamburg, in Sweden, in Japan… I give classes to the people there, I spend a week there. The Europeans really like capoeira Angola. Folks with 30 years of capoeira regional are going to capoeira Angola. They say they got tired of doing capoeira regional, and they went to capoeira Angola.
I travel with an attendant. I only go for $3,000. It’s very expensive here. I can’t go for $1,000 because if I do I end up losing lots of money. If I leave here for $1,000 then there are no students here, students only come when I’m here. $3,000. That’s right!
Lodging and everything. I took Sara one time. I took Papagaio, I took Raquel, I took Cabeça Pelada, I took Paciência, I took Nana, a Bahian, to Europe. I took Raquel to Brazil last year. Only those who have time can travel. Others can’t because they study or work. The majority study and work. There are two doctors here. Everyone here helps me, thank God. There is none of this racism business here, no. Not here in the academy. Everything here is like a zebra. Black and white. Everything here is equal. This is a family.
The people like it because it’s African culture. The people want to know. More so than in Brazil. In Brazil they don’t give much value or support. Here, they give much value.
I was born in Itagi, the interior of Bahia. I worked in the fields in Itagi. I worked with my father in the lavoura. And there, at times, I would go into the forest and watch the animals. I didn’t know what capoeira was… capoeira, for me, was underbrush. I would watch the animals in the bush. The birds never collided in flight; they would divert. I would go to the river to jogar farinha and see how the fish swam; the fish never hit each other. That’s what awoke the thought in my mind – how can they not hit each other? I was 10 years old.
Later I came to Itagi, to the city. I worked in the field, and later I came to the city. One day I was sitting in a doorway with two men, one named Pedro and the other Chico. Two guys about 18 years old passed by, and one did a corta-capim. He moved his legs like this. The two men commented. Pedro said to Chico: “Chico, that there is the dance of the nago people. If you do it on a person, the person falls.” I couldn’t talk with him, because he would tell my father, and my father used to beat us. When two adults are talking like that, a small boy shouldn’t interfere. He should keep his distance. Otherwise they would say “Joao was listening in to the conversation of his elders.” My father would arrive and beat us. Only when one of the men left – the one who commented stayed – did I approach and ask: “What is the dance of the nago people? What is corta-capim?” He said:
Não podia
conversar com ele que ele falava para meu pai e meu pai batia na gente. Dois adultos
conversando assim, o menino pequeno não ficava junto não. Ficava de longe. Se passasse e
ficasse escutando eles diziam: “O João fica escutando a palavra dos mais velhos”. Meu pai
chegava batendo na gente. Foi quando um saiu, o que falou ficou, o outro saiu. Ai eu
cheguei e perguntei: Como e que é, Seu Chico, o que é dança de nego nagô ? O que é corta
capim? Ele disse assim: “Aquilo ali é dança de nego nagô”. O que é dança nagô? “Dança
nagô é esse pessoal que vem da África, esse pessoal é africano e se chama Nagô. Eles
fazem esses movimentos, essa dança”. Eu disse: onde é que se aprende isso? Ele disse:
“Não sei. O pessoal trabalha no engenho de cana, trabalha no canavial, cortando cana, no
alambique”. E o que é corta-capim?. Nego pegou o facão e disse: “É isso aqui”. Eu tinha
dez anos de idade.
Capoeira é o seguinte: capoeira é uma dança, uma arte, uma profissão, uma cultura.
Agora, naquela dança ali, se ele tiver coagido ele tem que reagir com luta. É uma dança,
mas na hora que está precisando é uma luta. Veio como dança de N’golo para o Brasil.
Capoeira é africana desenvolvida no Brasil. Os africanos trouxeram ela para cá, mas não
trouxeram como capoeira, trouxeram como dança que desenvolveu no Brasil, no mato ralo,
o mato ralo chama capoeira.
Capoeira é irmão do candomblé. Muitos mestres não querem acreditar. Tudo que
vem da África é irmão do outro. O africano que trouxe para o Brasil. O candomblé, o
samba, a capoeira são irmãos. É irmão, tudo veio da África. Candomblé, samba, maculelê,
capoeira, tudo é irmão. Tudo veio da África. A capoeira chegou no Brasil como dança de
N’golo. Capoeira é uma dança, vamos dançar. Capoeira é mandinga, antigamente
chamavam de mandinga, falavam assim: “Cadê a mandinga, onde é a brincadeira, vamos
praticar aonde, vamos vadiar aonde?”. Aqui no Brasil cresceu mais. Os mestres cresceram e
foram passando para os alunos.
A capoeira que eu faço é natureza. Não copio nada dos outros pra fazer capoeira.
Deus e meus orixás que me dão sabedoria pra fazer aquilo que eu faço. Crio na hora. Peão
de cabeça, criado por mim, relógio, criado por mim, balão com uma mão só, tudo criado
por mim. Uso tudo que meu mestre me ensinou e multiplico mais.
O que meu mestre passou eu peguei tudo e fui crescendo. O Rio Amazonas fica
num lugar somente? Recebe uma coisa de um e outro e num cresce aquele mundão todo? É
como assim a vida da capoeira. Você agora tá aprendendo devagarinho, quando você tiver
bem você vai olhar a cultura, olha o que estou dizendo, você vai pro mato olhar no mato
assim, ver fazer um movimento no mato, você faz o movimento também. Vê um bicho
fazendo um movimento você faz um movimento também. Vê um peixe fazendo um
movimento você faz o movimento daquele peixe. O peixe vai lá e volta, não volta? A
cobra vai lá e não volta em cima pra pegar a pessoa? Tudo daqueles movimentos vai
crescendo dentro daquele só. A cobra nasce pequenininha, daquilo ali a mãe não ensina
nada, ela vai e faz pela peneira dela.
A natureza que dá pra pessoa. A natureza. O rio vai aqui e volta, segue nesta
direção. Não vai direto porque não tem lugar pra passar. Tem uma montanha aqui o rio não
vai subir reto porque não tem onde passar, procura lugar pra entrar, pra passar. Tem uma
formiga no rio num lugar onde não pode passar, ela procura, procura até achar um lugar
pra poder sair. Que nem você também. Jogando capoeira você tem a sua capoeira que seu
mestre te ensinou e você vai crescendo outra coisa aqui no seu corpo. O que seu corpo
pedir você dá a ele.
Corpo pede aqui. É isso, vou fazer isso. Você faz um movimento aqui, seu corpo