Draft Minutes 8/1: 22 April 2008
Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Act 2007
Voluntary Sector Issues Group (VSIG) 22 April 2008
Conference Room 2, Victoria Quay, Edinburgh
Attendees:
Moira Oliphant (Chair), Safer Children, Stronger Families, Scottish Government
David Roy, Safer Children, Stronger Families, Scottish Government
Donna McLean, Safer Children, Stronger Families, Scottish Government
Dave McLeod, Adult Care and Support, Health Directorate, Scottish Government
Shamin Akhtar, SCVO
Dougie Arneil, Scottish Sports Association
Fiona Campbell, Voluntary Art Scotland
Richard Crosse, CrossReach
Jim Duffy, Scottish Scouts Association
Judith Gillespie, Scottish Parent Teacher Council
Kirsten Gooday, Community Care Providers Scotland
Leah Granat, Scottish Council of Jewish Communities
John Harris, CRBS
Andrew Jackson, WRVS
Jackie McCaig, The Bishops’ Conference of Scotland
Fiona Miskelly, Church of Scotland
Karen Rennie, Apex Scotland
Welcome, Introduction and Apologies:
1. The Chair welcomed members to the 8th meeting of the Voluntary Sector Issues Group and introduced Denise Havard to the group. Denise is the project co-ordinator for the 14 implementation projects. Apologies were received from Peter Brawley, Joe McIvor, Jennifer McCreanor and JanMurray. Karen Rennie from Apex Scotland is attending on behalf of BrianRobertson.
Minutes of Meeting on 21 January 2008:
2. An amendment to paragraph 5 was suggested, following which the minutes were agreed. They will be put onto the Scottish Government website.
Matters Arising:
3. Transition Arrangements: This is an ongoing matter but the group will be informed as soon as any information is available. It was noted that there was some uncertainty of when and if organisations should or would undertake disclosure checks where staff are due an updated check. One view expressed was that there might be a reduction in child protection if organisations opt not to seek disclosures knowing that they will need to have disclosure through the Scheme.
4. It was asked whether there was any scope in running a shadow/dual system during the implementation of the PVG Act so people can still be checked under the current disclosure system and would be automatically added to the new scheme as soon as the scheme goes live. The Chair said that whilst this would not be possible, it will be important to manage the transition to the new scheme very carefully and that there would be challenged around this. There is more work to be done on this to be discussed with stakeholders. The Scottish Government is considering carefully the implementation of retrospective checking.
5. In response to a question about the work involved in establishing the new agency, it was explained that there are various projects including ones on process and system development, staff recruitment and training and establishment of the agency. Disclosure Scotland is now part of the Scottish Government. The current emphasis has been on the consultation on policy proposals for secondary legislation. The progress of all projects can be discussed at a later meeting. It was asked whether the new agency will go-live at the same time as the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA). The Chair informed members that ISA will be fully operational on 12 October 2009. A date had not as yet been set for go-live of the Scottish agency.
PVG Act updated core script
6. A copy of the updated PVG Act core script was circulated to members prior to the meeting for comments. The core script will be put on the Scottish Government website early next week. It will summarise the main features of the vetting and barring scheme. There will also be a set of questions and answers sent out with the core script which will be the most frequently asked questions from the consultation events. This will include questions and answers on one list/two list; definition of protected adult; automatic listing and fees.
7. The feedback given by members on the core script was generally positive. It was mentioned that it is useful to people who have never heard of PVG. This kind of information flow, however small, is crucial both to stakeholders and to members of the general public.
8. There were comments around the terminology of certain parts The Scottish Government should use words which people understand and use, for example, within the guidance of a childcare position. Guidance is also needed on how employers should use short scheme records. It was stated that up to 50% of organisations do not have access to the internet so this should be taken into account. Moreover, it was suggested not to use 2nd class post with paper based applications to join the scheme.
9. The Chair asked members to provide feedback on both the core script and the Questions and Answers once they are placed on the Scottish Government website.
Protected Adults and regulated work with adults:
10. Dave McLeod gave members an information handout on the current position with regards to protected adults and regulated work with adults. Protected adults are defined by the services which someone receives. Those adults receiving services become ‘protected’ from those who are unsuitable to deliver such work. Employers are required to determine if they provide one or more of the services in section 94 of the Act, and then determine if their workers will be doing regulated work. It was explained why the ‘adult-at-risk’ definition was inappropriate. Opinion was expressed that the definition needs to be conclusive to avoid the same uncertainty with regard to child care position as defined by PoCSA. There was concern that Housing Support Agencies would not be included in the scheme
Proposed amendment to PoCSA, schedule 2 update:
11. Schedule 2 to PoCSA sets out child care positions. One definition of a child care position is a position whose normal duties include work in an educational establishment. When Parent Councils meet and conduct their business in schools, further education institutions and hostels, then all members doing so are in a position whose normal duties include work in an educational establishment and are covered by the definition of child care position. The same applies with the teachers, instructors and tutors of adult classes using school premises. This was not intended by the legislation.
12. The amendment, if approved by Parliament, would remove these positions from child care positions. The Chair informed members that there was a series of engagement events and that the outcomes from these were positive. However, concern was expressed regarding ad hoc changes to PoCSA and that other positions might be considered too, for example, trustees of a children’s charity. One view was that this should be taken into consideration while looking at secondary legislation under PVG.
Regulated work with children scenarios:
13. The Chair asked any member of the Group who had participated in any of the engagement events to summarise the outcome of discussion groups on trades people and child care position, parental groups working in children’s hospitals and children participating incidentally in overnight excursions and the like for adults. There was a variety of practice across local authorities with regard to enhanced disclosure checking for trades people but most authorities supported risk-assessment of each situation as some situations brought trades people more into contact with children than others. It was generally felt that parental groups working in children’s hospitals should be removed from child care position. It was generally agreed that children should be able to participate in overnight excursions, where they were included incidentally, without the instructor etc being in a child care position. The Chair said that the engagement events had sought views, without commitment, but that the Scottish Government would consider the findings and way forward.
Volunteering research:
14. The Chair informed members that this was still being considered. She also informed members that there would be a report published soon entitled Child Protection Legislation and Volunteering in Scottish Sport. The Chair stated that she could not give any further information on the report prior to publication. Organisations could read the report once it is published to see if there is any information relevant to their own sectors.
AOCB:
15. Capacity Building Support: The Chair informed members that CRBS would be taking forward work on capacity building. Further information would be available at the next meeting.
16. Dougie Arneil informed members that this was likely to be his last meeting as responsibility for this area now sits with Kathleen McNulty from Children 1st, Child Protection and Sports Unit and she should be invited to any future meetings.
Date of next meeting:
17. The next meeting of the Voluntary Sector Issues Group will be on 18 June 2008. It was agreed that the following should be discussed at the next meeting:
· The outcome of the consultation on PVG
· Communication activity
· Guidance - management
· Feedback on the PoCSA amendment
· Capacity Building
Safer Children, Stronger Families
Children, Young People and Social Care Directorate
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