Books II & III

BOOK II & BOOK III thru p. 211

1. There are “3 kinds of Good” (1-Extrinsic benefit only; 2-Intrinsic benefit only; 3-Both Intrinsic & Extrinsic benefits). Socrates will attempt to prove that Justicein the soul is the 3rd kind of good (the kind that has both intrinsic & extrinsic benefits).
2. Glaucon begins Book IIby beginning to flesh out Thrasymachus’s view of Justice into a full-blown counterfactual that will force Socrates to fully work out his own definition. Glaucon, with Adeimentus’s help, work to force Socrates to respond to a Thrasymachus-inspired cynical counterfactual definition of Justice.
3. Does Glaucon’s devil’s advocate argument suggest (or presume) an approach to justice where one works to be seen to be just, rather than to inherently be just?

1. On what logic does Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s counterfactual (or devil’s advocate) definition of Justice rest? (182 right – 184 left)
2. How does the Gyges of Lydia Myth support this view of human nature?
3. What thinkers or approach to political theory from PLSC 261 does Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s counterfactual remind you of?(John Locke’s & Thomas Pain’s Social Contract Theory) (See especially 185 left, at line 364)

Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s “counterfactual” idea of Justice: The good life is best procured through injustice (when one can get away with it) masked by a good reputation and atoned for by bribery (of the Gods).

Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s notion of Justice is a counterfactual that nicely sets up Socrates’s (very different) account of Justice.

1. How doesSocratesbegin his response to Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s counterfactual (on p.187 right column). Socrates does not use the social contract type argument of G & Awe discussed. Why do we form cities or “society” according to Socrates? What thinker from PLSC 261 does Socrates’s new account on p. 187-189 remind you of?

1. Does Socrates prefer a citizen army or a professional army (mercenaries)? (p. 190, right column, p. 191 left column)

Importance of Specialization

Importance of Guardians (who will be split into Rulers & Auxiliaries)

Characterization of the Guardians’ nature on p. 191

How does the nature of pedigreed dogs help suggest the most desirable nature of the Guardians? (191 right and 192 left)

“Philosophy, spirit, speed, and strength must all, then, be combined in the nature of anyone who is to be a fine and good guardian of our city.”

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Book II, p. 192 bottom left through Book III, p. 211 left middle: Education & Socialization of the Guardians. You can just skim this section and be aware of what we say about it in class. We will put much less emphasis on this section.)

1. What is Socrates’s/Plato’s argument for censorship of much epic poetry, music,mythology? Clearly anachronistic: Plato’s view that children should not be exposed to unharmonious thoughts before their character is formed.

Cold War Emphasis of Plato’s Republic: Plato as the first totalitarian (e.g. Karl Popper). Athenians didn’t value personal liberty(negative liberty) as moderns do. Still, it’s a great weakness of Republic: Socrates/Plato describe a closed system of education that strongly emphasizes social engineering.

In our coverage of Book IV we will note Socrates’s emphasis on the Auxiliaries (the 2nd Part of the State)and how they provide Courage to the Ideal City. The bans, censorship, and social engineering described in this section are designed to ensure that the Auxiliaries have an unwavering courage (able to withstand all the “detergents” that can wash out a person’s strong character (as detergents wash the color out of fabric). They are also designed to ensure the Auxiliaries’ loyalty to carrying out the policies of the Rulers(the 1st Part of the State).

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