1.TUSC: What and Why

Dave Hill interviewed by Bill Templer October 2010 (subsequently published in the USA newspaper, The Socialist

TUSC, the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition is the first attempt in over a century to set up a socialist/ Marxist party to the left of the Labour Party in Britain that combines both socialist organisations/ parties/ groups with official support from some trade unions. In that way, it’s groundbreaking.

With the rightward policies of Labour, in common with most social democratic parties in Europe, adopting neoliberal policies (albeit usually to a slightly lesser degree than conservative parties) there is a space to the left of social democracy. There always has been, of course, with Communist, Maoist and Trotskyite, indeed, also anarcho-syndicalist groups contesting social democracy for the votes of workers and `the progressive bourgeoisie’, their strengths varying historically and geographically.

In Britain is most trade unions have been affiliated organisationally to the Labour Party since the Labour party was set up in 1900, following a decision by the Trades Union Congress. Some unions remained outside Labour. Today, for example, the affiliated unions (well, their individual members) have a third of the votes in the electoral college, for example, that elected Ed Miliband as the new leader of the Labour Party in Sept 2010.

With the rightward lurch of Labour, in particular under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown since 1994, unions such as the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) and Railway and Maritime Union (RMT) have either left the Labour Party (FBU) or been expelled from it (RMT). And trade union leaders and leading figures from major unions, and various levels of organisation in those trade unions, have, for the first time in a century, transferred their support, and some funding, organisation and leadership, to a party to the left of Labour.

In 2009 Bob Crow, leader of the RMT union, together with the Communist Party of Britain (CPB) and the Socialist Party of England and Wales (SP, or SPEW), and with support from other smaller parties such as Socialist Resistance (SR) (to which I belong) formed NO2EU-YestoDemocracy to fight the European elections, elections to the European Assembly, receiving around 1% of the national vote (I was one of its candidates). This reformed, in 2010, as the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, to fight the British general election of June 2010. Again I was one of its candidates, candidates received between 0.5% and 2.6%. The CPB was not on its leadership this time round, the leadership was in effect, Bob Crow (RMT), Dave Nellist (SP) and Hannah Sell (SP). For TUSC, the largest group on the Marxist left in Britain, the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) joined in, though with rather less enthusiasm than other groups. My own group (SR) gave support, while criticising the lack of transparency and internal democracy within TUSC. <y own view is that this should and can develop. TUSC is holding a national conference in January 2011 which may see democratising developments.

But to sum it up, TUSC was an amazing opportunity and development- the two biggest groups on the Trotskyite/ Marxist left in Britain, the SWP and the SP, supported by numerous smaller left groups- together with the official support of various regional and local organisations of the RMT and in places, support from unions not affiliated to labour. The dream, nirvana, of an alliance between vanguardist, highly organised socialist militants, with forces of the organised working class, the trade unions.

2. Why engage in electoral politics- as anti-capitalists- given the tiny number of votes we get

We try to build our votes from tiny to victorious of course. And in countries where there are versions of proportional representation, then `hard left’ what the French call `l’extreme gauche’, the socialist/ Marxist anti-capitalist Left do win elections at local, national and European level. For example as with O Bloco Esquerda (The Left Bloc) in Portugal, Die Linke (The Left) in Germany, Syriza in Greece , the Socialist Party in the Netherlands, and parties in various other countries. In Scotland, with aversion of PR. The Scottish Socialist Party won over 6% of the votes and elected 6 MSPs (members of the Scottish Parliament). (Then the curse of the Left struck again- the party split in acrimony, and subsequently lost all its seats).

At this point I am not going to discuss or place Communist Parties as far left. Many, following on from the Eurocommunist developments of the 1980s have become indistinguishable from social democratic reformist parties, though in some countries such as France, Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, they retain strong trade union membership and influence, for example in the 29 September 2009 European Trades Union Confederation day of action against governments’ austerity measures. There was a demo of 100,000 workers in Brussels, a general strike in Spain, and, in my home town, Brighton (a city of a quarter of a million people) there was a march of 300 people and a rally of around 400. The local Trades Council (local organisation of trade unions) had previously issued open invitations to organising meetings, attracting delegates from 30 political, trade union, community group and voluntary group organisations.

So, it’s not just about getting votes, it’s about building a movement, developing class consciousness, developing unity in action between trade unions and community and voluntary organisations, and the militants/ activists of the carious Marxist/ socialist groups. Extra-Parliamentary action, demonstrations, strikes, building experience and political knowledge and understanding through taking part in mass action is at this stage more important than winning votes. That may follow of course, as millions see their jobs, pay, social wage, benefits, hope cut and trampled on by the capitalist class, by the super-rich and the educations systems and media they control, by the ideological and the repressive apparatuses of the state.

We will continue to stand for elections, but outside of election periods we are active, in political education (for ourselves and for workers and families in struggle)- and trying to defend our class through solidarity and action.

3. What did the TUSC accomplish in Brighton by this campaign, that cost so much of your time, energy and adrenalin?

What it accomplished was bringing people from different Left traditions together. In the Brighton campaign (in Brighton Kemptown constituency, where there are around 65,000 electors) we had around 25-30 activists, comrades who leafleted, canvassed, organised and came to meetings. Around 18 were SP members, a number of them trade union shop stewards, a number students, we had 6 local and 4 non-local SR comrades, plus someone from the CPB, the local Unemployed Workers Centre (UWC), plus a few leading members of the RMT union, and around 4 SWP members.

We got a buzz going, a lively, media conscious campaign where we actually toured in an openback truck with a loudspeaker, canvassed, knocked on people’s doors, and got to know and trust each other. Building for the future. We have arranged the first joint SR-SP meeting ever in Britain, for example (with a Greek Fourth International speaker and an SP/ Committee for a Workers’ International speaker, on resisting the cuts in Greece and Britain).

What we accomplished was the lowest vote I personally have received in 10 elections- but then, until 2005 I was in the Labour Party and used to stand for Labour. But that tiny total for TUSC was unimportant- arguably in 2010 there was a degree of class polarisation, with considerable fear among many workers of the likely impact of a Conservative victory at the election. Lots of Marxists and socialists voted Labour `to keep the Tories out’. We hope to replace the Labour Party. It was a start.

4.What lessons did you `learn’ that activists on the socialist Left in the USA (or elsewhere) might `profit’ from?

Ditch the sectarianism that bedevils the Marxist and Socialist Left in the USA and throughout Europe. And, I would say, make sure that students and workers and socialist activists combine in a democratic and transparent federal organisation. Federal to begin with, anyhow, to safeguard the identities of smaller groups who might otherwise be submerged by the largest group in the organisation (e.g. in Britain, the SWP, or indeed, a union). But that structure should be on the road to a one member one vote organisation. In France, the main Trotskyite / Marxist organisations dissolved themselves in effect, to for the Nouvelle Parti Anti-Capitaliste (NPA, New Anti-Capitalist Party). My own group, SR (part of the Fourth International) is very strong on issues such as inner party democracy, transparency, and it does not have an oppressive form of democratic centralism. That is, we can and do disagree in public with each other. But SR put a lot of effort into democratising the other main party of the socialist Left in Britain, the RESPECT party, which gets most of its votes from the Muslim/ Pakistani/ Banhgladeshi communities in south Birmingham and the east End of London. RESPECT did have an MP, George Galloway, and still has some elected local councillors, though it currently has a democratic deficit- its conferences are rarely held and are more like rallies than democratically accountable decision making bodies.

So my two main lessons are 1, non-sectarianism and tolerance of different traditions on the Left; and 2. The need for democratic organisation. In Brighton we actually had that… SP, UWC, SR, RMT, SWP members of the Brighton TUSC group voted, and the majority vite won- and none of the groups tried to `pack’ any of the organisational, candidate selection or other meetings by the time dishonoured tactic of bussing in supporters.

A third lesson 3. is have an active visible noisy fun campaign! As Emma Goldman once said, `if I can’t dance, I don’t want to be part of your revolution’.

5. Would you do it again?

We are doing it again. As for me, I’ve been doing it for40 years. It’s worth doing. What’s the alternative? Do nothing? Join the reserve team / party of the ruling class, i.e. in Britain, the Labour Party, or in the USA, the Democrats

6. Closer question: one surprise in Brighton was the victory of the first Green Party MP in to parliament. How do you see that and account for it?

Yes, it’s great that Caroline Lucas, leader of the Green Party in Britain won one of the seats in Brighton, Brighton Pavilion. (TUSC fought the other constituency in Brighton, Brighton Kemptown).

I called for a vote for her (not that my call sways thousands!!) and so did SR, she is a socialist, and both in the election and since being elected, she has taken socialist positions, such as withdrawal from Afghanistan, anti-Cuts, pro-public investment.

Why did she win? She has a high national public profile, as an elected MEP (member of the European parliament), she is very able, the Greens concentrated their national money and resources/ people in Brighton Pavilion above all others (it really only fought seriously 3 or so constituencies in Britain, out of 650, the demography of Brighton is such that other than the outlying working class `council estates’ (projects in the USA), the town is `trendy’, media, IT, highly educated. The greens don’t get many working class votes. They are also well-established on Brighton and Hove City Council- they have 13 councillors, all in town/ city centre `wards’/ localities (none in the working class estates). They have been on Brighton Council since 1996. And, finally, and importantly, millions in Britain did not want the tweedeledum-tweedeldee choice between a Conservative Party feared by millions of liberal and working class people, and a New Labour Party that was a Tory-lite party, that was arrogant and unpopular, with a very unpopular leader. Brighton was the only place in England where there was an attractive, non-threatening alternative. As highlighted repeatedly by the local and national media. (Virtually any mention of TUSC was blanked out by the national print and TV media).

How do I see that now? Well, I want to see TUSC, or whatever the name becomes, councillors and MPs and MEPS, i.e. socialists in a socialist/ Marxist party, The greens are more radical than the main three parties in Britain, but they are not a socialist party, they are a pan-class party. If we has 13 socialist/ Marxist councillors in Brighton, then we would see fireworks!

7. The whole socialist Left in Brighton polled less than 900 votes. A party of social reform gets people’s ear and hand. At best we get their heart, that’s it?

Well, we get more hearts than votes, that’s for sure. Even some of my socialist/ Marxist comrades voted Labour, to `keep the Tories out’. So we have two problems…. One the electoral system (first past the post, single member constituencies), as in the USA, means that millions vote with their heads not their hearts. (I’ve actually a lot of sympathy for the French electoral system, of two rounds of voting. In the first, people vote with their heart, in the second, with their head, between the (usually two) front-runners. I actually prefer proportional representation with, say a 5% national qualifying figure).

But it’s not the electoral system to blame… guess what, it’s a mixture of the capitalist class, and their ideological hegemony, faithfully ensured by the media and education systems, and our own divisiveness and (sometimes) vanguardism.

Let me develop on these. Firstly, capitalist hegemony- it’s always contested! We contest it, there are permanent `culture wars’, battles between different weltanshauungen. Marx, Gramsci, Althusser all wrote on it. For Marxists our job is to develop class consciousness, as opposed to false consciousnesses, to work to transform consciousness from a `class in itself’ to a `class for itself’, with class consciousness. In the forthcoming period of massive austerity cuts across the capitalist world, the changes and realisations of people’s material conditions of existence- increasing impoverishment and immiseration- will play a role in this change in consciousness.

Secondly, our own failings as Marxists. Vanguardism, the Leninist style party has advantages, of course, a cadre, people with developed socialist perspectives and analyses, and experience of struggle. A disadvantage is that for some groups, `party-building’ can inhibit broader alliances. I would be quite happy to see SR, or the SP with 100,000 members… but I’d be happier in a united front welcoming pluralism and a variety of traditions, united in its aspirations for and working towards a democratic socialist society.

On occasions, such as in the current anti-cuts movements in Britain, then popular front anti-cuts activities involving, as in the 29 Sept anti-cuts march in Brighton, Greens, Labour activists and representatives, workers not formerly strongly politicised facing job losses, are important. The Coalition of Resistance in Britain is in effect a national popular front type of activity against the cuts. But what I, and most socialists and Marxists want is to go beyond that single issue anti-cuts campaign, and play a part in developing unity in action and a development in working class political- class- consciousness. Welcoming and working in what are actually autonomous local actions, grass roots activism and resistance, while having national (democratic) co-ordination. And having internationalist perspectives, learning from and taking part in the struggles of the international working class.

It might be TUSC, or it might be a Campaign for a New Workers Party, that plays a national co-ordinating role in this. In my view, it needs to be pluralist, democratic, open- but it needs to develop socialist consciousness, and to eschew and replace neoliberal social democracy.