Transcription of Greenwood, SC Exchange Between Steve Lefemine, Columbia Christians for Life
Transcription of Greenwood, SC exchange between Steve Lefemine, Columbia Christians for Life,
And Major Lonnie Smith, Greenwood County Sheriff’s Department, Thursday, November 3, 2005,
4:50-4:55 PM, at intersection of Montague Street and By-Pass.
[ U.S. 25/U.S. 178/S.C. 72 Bypassx U.S. 25/U.S. 178 (Business)/Montague Street ]
Recorded by electronic voice recorder (transferred to audiocassette tape), and most of dialogue also recorded on videotape:
Major Lonnie Smith: How are you doing, sir ?
Steve Lefemine: Allright sir, how are you ?
Major Smith: Lonnie Smith with Greenwood County Sheriff’s Office.
Lefemine: Steve Lefemine
Major Smith: OK, we have a number of complaints from people that find this offensive and
find this… and they don’t want this on the street. So, at this time, I’m gonna ask you to put
them up, OK ? Put these signs up, because it is offensive to the things, because you can’t
distinguish what age of people are seein’ these signs. OK, I’m asking you to put ‘em up,
and go ahead, and if you want to stand out here on the corner, that’s fine, but we cannot have
these signs up because people do consider this is offensive material. OK ?
Lefemine: Major Smith, if you’re ordering us to leave under threat of arrest or being ticketed, we will leave, but I want you to know you’re violating our constitutional right [ Smith: OK ] because
you’re discriminating based upon content of our signs.
Major Smith: Right, people do find this offensive, and this is an offensive manner, OK ? This is
offensive because you’ve got small children – you’ve got different ones that are seeing this. We
have had so many complaints about people that this is offensive [ ? ] if this is offensive [ then ]
that’s what we need, we need you to put the signs up. You’re free to stay here, whatever, but we
can’t have these type of signs up where people can see ‘em.
Lefemine: We will leave if you’re ordering us to leave under threat of being ticketed or of being
arrested, but I want you to be advised Major Smith that you’re discriminating against the content
of our pictures. Being “offensive” is not a basis for violating First Amendment rights. We have a
free speech, free assembly right to be here on the sidewalk, a freedom of religion right to be on a
public forum.
Major Smith: You do not have a right to be offensive to other people in that manner.
Lefemine: We don’t have a right to holdup “obscene” [ not clear ? ]. The supreme Court has
ruled against “obscene” material [ Smith: Right ]. This is not “obscene.”
Major Smith: They are obscene or offensive. You cannot distinguish what age group of people
is seein’ this. OK, you’re doin’ it to all things, and you’re showing it to minor children and whatever, and we’ve had so many complaints of bein’ offensive. OK ? So, I’m asking you if you
will please take the signs down. If you do not take the signs down we will have no other choice
[that] we’re gonna ticket you for breach of peace.
Lefemine: If you’re threatening that I have to… advise you before [ ? ] signs, Major Smith, you
are violating our constitutional rights based on the content of our signs. Being “offensive” is not
a legal reason to remove signs from the sidewalk, only if it’s [ Smith: OK ] obscene. These are
not obscene signs,…
Major Smith: People are finding these offensive and obscene and that…
Lefemine: Sir, the supreme Court [has] established criteria for being what is obscene…
sexually promiscuous basically…
Major Smith: I’m asking you one more time, to please put the signs up.
Lefemine: Allright Major Smith, I want you to know that I will be consulting with an attorney
[ Smith: That’s fine ] and we will consider a federal lawsuit for Greenwood forcing us off the
street based on the content of out signs. That’s what you’re doing, and the supreme Court has
already upheld the right of people to be on the sidewalk. This is a free speech [ forum ?].
Major Smith: And, I’m not saying you gotta leave the sidewalk. I’m not sayin’ that. I’m just
sayin’ you got to put these signs [down ?]. [ Lefemine: That’s part of our freedom of speech. ]
Well I’m not telling you you have to leave the sidewalk. I’m just telling you you’ve got to
put these signs down.
Lefemine: That’s a violation of our free speech.
Major Smith: That can be settled at a later date.
Lefemine: Major Smith and Officer Strickland, I want you to be aware, that that’s what I intend to
do, to consult with an attorney [ Smith: OK ] for consideration of a federal lawsuit for violating
our free speech right, our First Amendment right to be on a sidewalk and exercise speech which
includes our signs.
Major Smith: I want you to know that, you know, we’re responsible for people here in Greenwood County, and that’s what they’re sayin’. They’re sayin’ this is offensive. I’m lookin’ at it. I think it’s offensive, and I’m just tellin’ you that… I’m askin’ you one more time.
Lefemine: We’re gonna leave, but I want you to know “offensive,” being “offensive” is not a reason to remove us from the sidewalk, only if [it’s] obscene, and these don’t meet,… sir, these don’t meet the supreme Court criteria for what’s obscene.
Major Smith: Like I said, this is the last warning. You can either go ahead and put ‘em down, or
you [ not clear ? ] ticket you.
Lefemine (to others in the tour group): Go ahead and remove the signs, he’s violating our constitutional rights… go remove the signs… remove the signs.
Lefemine (to the electronic voice recorder for the record): The time is… 4:55.
Lefemine (to others in the tour group, perhaps on the radio): Let’s go ahead and bring the signs
in. They are discriminating based on the content of our signs because they call it offensive. Let’s go
ahead, bring the signs back to the van… (to a literature distributor) : You can go ahead and hand
out literature.
Present on-hand to witness this exchange between Steve Lefemine and Major Smith were also
three other tour participants: Caleb Green (videotaping), Linda Beckman, and Sam Murch.
One other Greenwood County Sheriff’s dept. officer was present also (Officer Strickland), who
had what appeared to be a camera around his neck. This exchange lasted about 5 minutes, from
approximately 4:50 to 4:55 PM.