Oral History Interview with S. Maynard Turk

Oral History Interview with S. Maynard Turk

T:You were born in Roanoke County?

M:Born in Roanoke County.

T:On October 14, 1925?

M:Yes.

T:Judge Turk said that he was born at home - were you born at home or were you born in a hospital?
M:Yes, I was born at home also.

T:And this was a farm that you all were living on?

M:Yes, a small farm and we grew up ,I might add, poorer than the conventional church mouse.

T:What did your father do for a living?
M:He was a farmer.

T:And what type of farm did he have?

M:It was a general type farm. We raised some wheat and had an extensive vegetable garden. Matter of fact, we took some vegetables to the farmer’s market in Roanoke. They had a very extensive farmer’s market in Roanoke in those days. During the growing season we would take vegetables to the farmer’s market. That was one of the primary sources of income. But, we did have cows so we had our own milk as a result of the cows being a part of our operation. We raised hogs so that we had our meat during the winter. We’d kill the hogs and cure the meat. But, it was a fairly meager existence.

T:You dad was named James A. Turk. Is that right?

M:That’s right.

T:What was your mother’s name?
M:Geneva Alice. Richardson was her maiden name. She had taught school way back in the teens or in the 1920s before there was any strict requirement for degrees or anything.

T:Was it one of these proverbial one room school houses she taught in?

M:I think so.

T:What is the history of the Turk family?

M: Well, the Turk family landed in Charleston in, I think, the year was 1747. And one branch went to Georgia and one branch went to Texas. We haven’t done anything to trace that part of the family—the Turk family on our father’s side. But we have reestablished contacts with the Georgia side. We have cousins down there who we see.

T:Did the Turk family come over from England?
M:They came from Ireland.

T:How about your mother’s side of the family?
M:We haven’t really done genealogy there because she was—her family was in Virginia forever and they came over from England also.

T:You were the youngest of three children, right?
M:Right.

T:And besides your brother you have an older sister named Margaret?

M:Right.

T:And then it was the judge and then it was you?

M:Right.

T:And what did Margaret end up doing with her life?
M:Well, she was the smartest, I always said, of the three children. She graduated from high school in ’37, I think, or maybe ’36. She ended up doing basically secretarial work. She didn’t go to college. I’m not sure that the judge and I would have gone to college but for the GI Bill. That was in my judgment—and I’m not a big government fan—a well-run program. It continued the country’s prosperity after World War II. Got it back on its feet. Educated a whole wide of people who took over society.

T: Where did you go to high school?

M:William Byrd.

T:And what year did you graduate?

M:‘42.

T:By the time you graduated, of course, the country was at war. After you graduated high school, did you go immediately into the service?

M:I didn’t go into the service until ’43.

T:So what did you do between high school graduation and going into the service?
M:I worked for the railroad.

T:And Judge Turk said thathe also worked for the railroad before entering the service.

M:Right.

T:Is this Norfolk and Western?
M:Yes.

T:What did you do for the railroad?
M:I think it was classified as some kind of a clerk.

T:Your father died when you were fairly young. He died when you were 12 or 13.

M:Yes.

T:How did you all—once your father passed—how did you all sort of make ends meet?

M:We continued to work on the farm. My sister, who as I say had graduated, I think, from high school in ’36, she went to work for—as a secretary for the school principal at William Byrd. As I said earlier she was the smartest of the three.

T:What was Roanoke like during the depression? Had the depression hit the city particularly hard?
M:Well, those who were fortunate enough to work for the railroad survived fairly well. But, I can remember soup lines in Roanoke very vividly.

T:Where did you do your basic training?
M:I did my basic training at Fort Eustis [Virginia].

T:And after Fort Eustis where did Uncle Sam send you?
M:Down to Savannah, Georgia.

T:And what were you trained to be? What did you do in the army?
M:We were in artillery. And that’s the reason my hearing is so poorly—so poor.

T:You had too many mortars going off near you—or shells?

M:Yeah, in my—I have a severe loss of hearing. For example, I can’t possibly drive on the interstate because I simply can’t hear cars approaching from the rear.

T:Did you lose your hearing right away or did it just sort of develop over time after the war?

M:Well it developed over time. I went back on active duty during Korea, and I’ve often said it was the stupidest thing in the world. And why the army did it I don’t know. But, they did what they call a profile when I went back on active duty which was early 1952. And I was recalled supposedly for 17 months. I ended up getting out at the end of ’52. But they did another profile when I left active duty at the end of ’52 and there had been a marked difference in my hearing over that period of time. What happened was—and I’ve never told them this—but we had partied all night. There was a bunch of young lieutenants who were from the Delaware area and they knew a bunch of girls. We would party all night and sleep all day. And what we did was the only place that we had any shade—we would sleep under the guns. And you can imagine what that did to my hearing.

T:Now when they sent you to Savannah, what were you doing down inSavannah? Were you doing additional training in artillery?

M:Right.

T:How long were you down in Savannah?
M:I think we left Savannah in September or October.

T:Of ’43?

M:Yes.

T:After Savannah, did you get sent overseas?
M:Yes.

T:How did you get from Savannah to Europe? Did they put you in one of those big troop ships?
M:I went over on the Queen Mary.

T:Which is a pretty good sized ship.

M:Yes, it’s a pretty good sized ship. There were—it wasn’t the biggest crossing, but there were 23,000 troops.

T:On the Queen Mary?

M:On the Queen Mary.

T:Was she part of a convoy because of the presence of U-boats? Or did she just dash across the Atlantic by herself because she was do fast?

M:She dashed across the Atlantic by herself.

T:During that run across the Atlantic, did you have any U-boat sightings or was it pretty uneventful?

M:This is a strange story, and I’ve always remembered it. They used to have what they called deck side. Everyone was required to leave their quarters and come up on the deck.

T:For fresh air?

M:For fresh air—to get some of the stench out. Somebody yelled “U-boat” and everybody went to that side of the ship. And it damn near capsized. You can imagine 23,000 troops on one side of the ship.

T:So she was listing?

M:She sure in hell was. The captain gave it whatever it needed to correct it and that was the last day we had deck exercises.

T:Did you dock in England?

M:We landed in Scotland. We then took a train down to England. We did some additional training in England. Then the Battle of the Bulge came along. We were throwing everything we had to try to stem the German onslaught at that point in time. So we got immediate shipment over to Europe. Well, now the Battle of the Bulge really was over by the time we got there.

T:What army were you in at that point? Were you the 8th?

M:No, we were in the 1st because the odd numbered armies were in Europe and the even numbered armies were in the Pacific.

T:And did you see any combat?

M:Well, we saw some combat in the sense that we were required to try to shoot down airplanes, German aircraft. Usually it would be, well I remember one. I was in the communications part of the outfit and I got detailed out to a signal corps unit right after we had gone across the Rhine.

T:Is that where Patton pissed into the Rhine?

M:He might have. That’s the reason they often argued about. We have a two lane bridge here and they argued about whether it needs to be replaced or not. And I always tell ‘em that it doesn’t need to be replaced. They just need to remove the stoppers at either end. And there is unlimited amount that you can get across a two lane bridge if you don’t stop. And I remember very vividly they’re pushing trucks and tanks and stuff in the Rhine because if it was not gonna slow down…

T:So it a truck broke down they’d just push it over the side?

M:Right.

T:And keep going?

M:Right.

T:As you were moving into Germany,could you see the ravages of war—you could see the damage to the towns and the people?

M:Oh, yeah.

T:What sticks out in your memory about that?
M:Well, I remember we went into Germany to a town called Aachen. It was pretty devastated. Some areas of Germany were very devastated. All of what became East Germany was just rubble.

T:As you were pushing through Germany did you see many of the civilians? How did the civilians act toward the American soldiers?

M:They were not hostile at all. Now you were forbidden to fraternize, but GIs paid no attention to that. If there was a young lady involved, then you moved right in for thekill – so to speak.

T:With your chocolate bars and Lucky Strike cigarettes. When the war ended,did you remain in Germany for a period of time or did you immediately come back home?

M:No. The war ended in Europe in April or May of ’45. I didn’t come back until almost a year later. Our unit was scheduled to ship out and go to the Pacific, but once they dropped the atomic bombs and Japan surrendered we stayed over there a few more months. I came back in May of ’46.

T:So you came back in the May of ’46 and you enrolled in Roanoke College that fall?

M:Yes.

T:Why did you decide to go to college? Was it the GI Bill?

M:Yes.

T:And why Roanoke College?

M:Well, I thought about William and Mary because I had not actually matriculated, but I had gone down to Williamsburg before I went into the service. They had a program that you could work for the—I think it was the Navy—someplace around Williamsburg. It was enough to pay the tuition and room and board. But I never enrolled in there. I don’t know why I didn’t. But I was very close to enrolling.

T:You and the judge ended up both going to Roanoke College. Was the fact that he was going to Roanoke College a factor in your decision? Were you all close back then?
M:Yes. We are—we were—and still are very close.

T:You both ended up in economics at Roanoke College.

M:Right.

T:Why did you choose economics as a major?

M:Well, it wasa good major for pre-law. We were thinking about going to law school. We weren’t sure that we were going to, but both of us were thinking about it. In those days they didn’t have what is called LSATs.

T: Did you take any law related courses when you were at Roanoke College?

M:No. I don’t recall that we did.

T:Why were you thinking about attending law school?

M: Dean Myers [Edward “De” Myers], the Dean at Roanoke College at the time, was going to Washington and Lee to become head of the History department. We were both fairly good students at Roanoke, and Dean Meyers had been in Pi Kappa Phi – the same fraternity that we were in. Dean Myers said,“why don’t you come on down to W&L. I think I can get you on a scholarship program.” We submitted an application and indeed we did get a scholarship. Even though we had the GI Bill the scholarship was in addition to that.Washington Lee wrote us a check for the amount of the scholarship which, as I recall, paid full tuition.

T:So that meant that you didn’t have to work when you were going to law school—which makes a difference.

M:It sure does.

T:When you were at Roanoke College, were there any professors who stand out as individuals who made an impact on your studies or your life as a student?
M:Well, there was a chemistry professor who I thought was outstanding. He was Professor [Andrew “Buck”] Murphy. I’m sure he’d be long since dead.I also remember Professor [Frank E.] Snow, who was a language professor. There was a biology professor also,Dr. [George E.] Perry. He was outstanding. One of the better professors I’ve ever had. And I’ve had many good ones through the years.

T:Did you live on campus all four years?
M:No. We only lived on—I don’t remember whether we lived in the fraternity house one or two years.

T:And that was the Pi Kapp house that was on High Street?

M: Yes.

T:I know you and the judge speak fondly of your involvement in the fraternity. What was it like being in a fraternity in the 1940s and 1950s?

M:Well, it provided a lot of camaraderie and even though we were in a small school it gave you sort of an anchor point.

T:Back then living in the fraternity house, did you have a house mother?

M:Yes, and they were very strict.

T:What rules did the fraternity have?No women upstairs?
M:Certainly no women upstairs. No question about that.

T:Did you eat your meals at the fraternity house as well? Did they have a cook?
M:Yes, we did.

T:How about formal functions? Did the fraternities have mixers or dances?
M:As I recall we did have a couple of functions when we were at Roanoke. I know we had them at the fraternity at Washington andLee, but I think we also had them at Roanoke College.

T:Your wife went to Sweet Briar, right?
M:Yes.

T:When did you meet?

M:After she got out of Sweet Briar, she did a secretarial course; in the early 50s, well even through the mid-60s, all women could do, or were expected to do, was either teach or do secretarial work and she didn’t want to teach. So she decided to take a secretarial course in Washington, DC. She was living there with a girl from Roanoke among others. There were four or five of them living there in a house in Georgetown. I went up on a blind date and it went from there.

T:Were you in college at that point or law school?

M:No. I was working for Hercules at that point.

T:OK, so it was after law school.

M:Yes.

T:Who lined you up on the blind date?
M:A guy named Buddy Brewer. He’s now dead. I was thinking about Buddy the other day. He was in our wedding. He died about three, four years ago.

T:What was the transition like from an undergraduate college to law school? Was the first semester difficult at W&L or were you prepared for law school?

M:We were pretty well prepared. We both had a good record at Washington Lee. My brother’s record was better than mine because he’s smarter than I am. Either that or he worked harder. I don’t think he worked harder. It seemed to come easy to him. Anyway, I remember still the first course we had—the first case we had—it was Pearson v. Post [a seminal case often taught in a Property class]. I remember the case very well. Once we had got through the first semester—now you were somewhat concerned, I think and rightly so, about law school because you didn’t have any interim exams to guide you as to how you were doing. So it was an all or nothing proposition.

T:Back then did you take exams after your first year or after your first semester?

M:We took exams after our first semester.

T:That’s a lot of pressure when you have 100% of your grade riding on one test.

M:That’s right.

T:And how did first semesters exams go for you?
M:As I recall pretty well.

T:How would you characterize your classes and your teachers? Did they use the Socratic method? Were the professors intimidating in class?

M:There were discussions. But I must say I thought the law professors at Washington Lee were outstanding.

T:Anyone in particular stand out in your education?

M:Certainly, the most memorable was the Dean and he was referred to as “Skinny” Williams.He was skinny and country as the day is long but very, very bright.

T:What did he teach?

M:He started out—he was teaching that first course.

T:The property class.

M:Yeah, personal property. He also taught trust and I think wills. Probably taught some other courses, but those are courses that I remember.