Dundee Partnership Community Conference

Experiences of Poverty

12 March 2016

Introduction

Since the implementation of the Dundee Fairness Strategy in 2012, a great deal of work has gone into developing support for people experiencing poverty. A wide range of organisations work to help people deal with the poverty-related issues that they face on a daily basis. These issues are wide ranging and frequently interlinked.

This conference explored how people are currently experiencing poverty in Dundee through looking at the latest research and the work of the Fairness Commission. It also provided an insight into elements of the training that is being provided to frontline staff who regularly come across people experiencing poverty, and gathered the views of the assembled community members.

The report that follows looks at the event content in a little more detail and goes on to collate all the comments and viewpoints expressed by delegates during their lively discussions.

Event Summary

Welcome & Introduction – Cllr Jimmy Black

Jimmy outlined two very different aspects of Dundee. On one hand, the city has a number of great developments underway and a number of affluent areas. On the other, there are several areas that experience high levels of deprivation.

Over the last year, the Fairness Commission has been gathering evidence in relation to poverty and deprivation, but knows that there are some things that it will not be able to change e.g. national policies on benefits. Instead, it will focus on what can be done locally. This needs to be identified through listening to people using services, either in person or through the agencies that are working with them.

Jimmy then outlined the agenda and introduced Jacqui and Lydia from the Equally Well team.

Poverty Awareness Training Elements – Jacqui Fleming & Lydia Banks, Equally Well

Jacqui outlined the purpose of the full Poverty Awareness training session, which is to raise awareness of poverty and stigma amongst frontline staff. While most staff are within different parts of Dundee City Council, several other public and third sector agencies have also accessed training sessions to date. The training is interactive, explores poverty and enables staff to be more supportive of people in their day to day role.

The first element of the training that was delivered was ‘the biscuit game’. This required each table to first divide up a number of biscuits equally (fairly straightforward) and then, with the added complication of a ‘role’ for each person, had to divide them up equitably. The roles are worded in such a way that some people may require more or less biscuits than others but balanced so that it is more difficult for everyone to get their ‘fair share’ of what is available.

Lydia then introduced the second element from the training, which was around definitions of poverty. Each table was asked to spend a few minutes compiling a list of words and phrases that come to mind when poverty is mentioned, and then to try and come up with a definition of poverty.

Once groups had done this, definitions were shared with everyone, and the element rounded off by looking at the United Nations definition of poverty.

Experiences of Poverty in Dundee – Jacky Close, Faith in Community Dundee

Jacky presented on the recent research project carried out in Dundee that was led by Faith in Community Dundee, Craigowl Communities and Shelter. The research involved undertaking in-depth interviews with people experiencing poverty and deprivation. Altogether, 19 agencies helped the research team to interview 147 people. In addition, three focus groups were also held.

When Alex Neil, Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice & Pensions, came to Dundee 15 participants in the project met with him, along with several members of the Dundee Fairness Commission. At a later date, 28 of the participants took part in a joint event with the whole Fairness Commission.

The report contains a range of statistics drawn out of the interviews. These help to highlight not only the areas in which people identified issues, but also the availability of help to address them.

A range of case studies are also included in the report. These are presented as one-page infographics that show the areas of life in which issues are being experienced, and the conference was given the opportunity to look at a few of these in more detail.

Film: Voices of Poverty

This 20 minute film highlights the issues being faced by six Dundee residents in their own words, with additional comment from a worker involved in one of the focus groups held as part of the research covered by Jacky above. These powerful stories are framed by input from Jimmy Black, Marjory Stewart, Peter Allan and Alex Neil

The film can be found online at

Poverty Awareness Training Elements – Lindsay Cameron, Welfare Rights Team

Lindsay introduced another element of the training designed to challenge people’s preconceptions around benefits, and poverty. This element used a ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire’ style to ask a number of questions, with all those present participating. There were many surprised exclamations as Lindsay revealed the correct answers.

Following the questions, Lindsay covered a number of key points around poverty that added to the thoughts prompted by the questions. These included that;

  • Poverty is not a lifestyle choice
  • Being in work is not a guarantee of not being in poverty
  • Some people are more at risk of poverty than others
  • Measures can be put in place to prevent or mitigate the effects of poverty
  • How people in poverty are treated in important

Dundee Fairness Commission – Elizabeth Kane, Community Representative

Elizabeth’s presentation started with an overview of what the Dundee Fairness Commission had done, starting with gathering information on many different aspects of poverty and going on to investigate the causes and the effectiveness of existing provision. As mentioned above, they held an event to directly include those experiencing poverty in their work, and are now bringing all of this together in a series of recommendations for further action.

Evidence sessions included Welfare Reform, child poverty, education and the hidden cost of the school day, in-work poverty, the Living Wage, stigma, housing, physical disabilities, employment for young people, food banks, and fuel poverty. Commission members also visited several places including; community cafés, Dundee Job Centre, Triage, and employability services in Dundee.

To finish, Elizabeth outlined fourteen of the likely recommendations that will come out of the Commission, an indication of the scale of the issue. These will be formally reported to the Dundee Partnership at an event in May.

Question & Answer Session

Peter Allan invited questions from the floor to the presenters and other experts present. These are summarised in the separate section below.

Round Table Discussion

Delegates were asked to spend some time in discussion around the questions;

  • What aspects of poverty do you come across in your communities?
  • What help is already available and how effective do you think it is?
  • What gaps are there in the help available to people experiencing poverty?
  • What aspects of poverty do you think the Dundee Partnership should focus on and why?

The various points raised have been collated and summarised in the section below.

Questions & Answer Session

Should there be Community owned accommodation?

  • There is less need for this compared to areas where this occurs as Dundee City Council has over 13,000 homes and Housing Associations a further 8-9,000 available at affordable rents
  • As an example, a two bedroom house in Fleming Gardens from DCC is £275pcm; private sector rent is £500 and is also likely to be less well maintained
  • Housing allocations policy is sometimes unhelpful if they are already deemed to be ‘adequately housed’

Stigma – can it be removed for people going to get help?

  • This issue has been taken very seriously by the Fairness Commission and proposals for change will be made
  • There is a training issue for frontline staff who meet the people who are/feel stigmatised. The Poverty Sensitive Training is being delivered to as many people as possible, with a ‘training for Trainers’ session planned that will help broaden delivery and increase capacity
  • An alternative narrative is needed to help more people see how those in poverty live, but any involvement of the press to do this can be a double edged sword
  • We need to avoid making assumptions about people and base help on facts

Many of the jobs created through the V&A / Waterfront will be service industry, low paid jobs, and many employees will be from outside Dundee. How can a fair share for Dundonians be ensured?

  • At the moment, there are many jobs within the construction industry
  • Future jobs in retail / service industries can lead to progression within the industry
  • The Fairness Commission will be encouraging employers to pay the Living Wage (currently £8.25 per hour
  • There is a desire to see Dundonians setting up their own businesses on the back of these developments
  • Community benefit clauses are incorporated into DCC procurement for these sites, which means contractors need to use local workers where possible. It is estimated that 60% of the current workforce at the Waterfront development are local at present

How do we increase the number of Advice Services?

  • Financial Inclusion agencies are stretched, but are dealing with issues faced by their clients. The work of the Fairness Commission and DCC has ensured that funding for these has been maintained despite the current budget constraints
  • Work is being done to ensure that where clients need to work with more than one agency, the handover is done as smoothly as possible so that clients remain engaged and get the help they need
  • A mapping exercise of the whole Advice sector has just been started that will help to identify what else is needed and reduce overlap between services
  • Alongside the need for more capacity, people need to know where they can go for help at present. Any professional contact that they have should be in a position to signpost them, regardless of sector

What help can be given to people seeking to start their own businesses who are looking for premises?

  • DCC does have a lot of properties available, but it is recognised that Planning and Licensing need to communicate better to help encourage enterprise
  • Local Councillors can also be useful to speak to

Can anything be done with respect to private landlords not agreeing to involvement in schemes such as the current external cladding programme?

  • Legislation is due from the Scottish Government to help with this issue

Funeral costs in Dundee are amongst the most expensive in Scotland and many families cannot afford them. Can anything be done to reduce costs?

  • Craigowl Communities are running a small project that looks at this. It gives advice on how to avoid unnecessary charges
  • Some charities will help with the cost of headstones
  • Dundee Pensioners Forum met recently with Craigowl Communities, lawyers and undertakers to discuss this issue. There are ways of reducing the cost, especially if this is planned for in advance rather than at a particularly difficult time
  • It is an issue that while funeral costs have increased, the assistance available towards costs has remained the same for several years. Undertakers will help people to access this assistance if they know that money is tight
  • There is a need to meet this gap somehow

Round Table Discussion Points

Words Associated with Poverty

Delegates were asked what words or phrases came to mind when the subject of Poverty was raised. Responses included;

Inability to support self or family *5

Hunger *4

Addiction *3

Struggle to cope day to day *3

Poor mental health *3

Depression *2

Divisive of society*2

Unable to access everyday services / activities *2

In work poverty *2

Arrears / Debt

Loss of control

Crime

Depends on the persons coping skills

Deprivation

Discrimination

Domestic violence

Eviction

Existing

Fed up

Foodbanks

Frustration

Ignorance

Isolation

Isolated families

Lack of money

Loneliness

Loss of dignity

No community spirit

Own needs put before rest of family

Suffering in order to protect your children

People not interested in you

Poor Health

Preventable

Pride and not asking for help

Shame

Stigma

Definition of Poverty

One table defined poverty as:

Having to put yourself first and not being able to help others or be involved in the wider community, including family. Having to focus on ‘how to get through the day’ rather than anything positive.

What aspects of poverty do you come across in your communities?

  • Children in poor families
  • Hungry children accessing activities
  • Hungry children attending youth clubs
  • Cost of school uniforms
  • People without facilities to cook needing cold food parcels at food banks
  • People eating unhealthily as it is seen as cheaper
  • Lack of healthy cooking skills
  • Community gardens offering free food has been a positive support to some families
  • Lunch clubs and community cafes could use plots
  • Isolation*2
  • Isolated adults
  • Isolated older people*2
  • Isolated families with drug/mental health issues
  • Digital poverty– very isolating
  • Hard to see, as many hide their poverty
  • Hard to see the real poverty in the community as people just struggle on
  • Issues with pride, and not wanting to accept ‘charity’
  • Some people see it as‘below them’ to access things like the foodbank
  • People have nothing to fall back on!
  • People can't replace essential items when they break
  • People can't afford to access activities
  • Some people are honest and refuse the things they don't need
  • People living with no electricity
  • Fuel poverty for elderly
  • Cost of energy / fuel
  • Poverty of information – not knowing about services
  • Not hearing about services
  • Drug addiction
  • Delays in benefit claims / payments
  • People looking for debt advice
  • Unemployment
  • Family breakdown
  • Transport poverty
  • Fitness to work tests are creating problems for DLA claimants

Recurring themes in the above include food poverty, isolation, poverty being hidden, fuel poverty, and difficulty in accessing services

What help is already available and how effective do you think it is?

Community café’s and other projects providing food were mentioned a number of times;

  • Community Cafes inviting services is good
  • Why can’t we have these café’s everyday? Reliance on volunteers can be difficult
  • Various Community/Church Cafes are responding to the needs of people by providing more than just food. Different agencies attend to help people with other issues relating to drugs & alcohol, benefits advice and budgeting
  • St. Mary’s Community facility, Ormiston Lounge and Brooksbank provide a wide range of help for people from providing snacks or food at children’s/youth groups to rearranging timetables so groups meet over tea time to give the opportunity of feeding people

A number of other existing services were highlighted as being useful;

  • Community Centres provide lots of activities and helpful support, including Councillor clinics
  • Job shops are helpful
  • Adult Learning team are good
  • Dundee North Law is good

Some specific areas were discussed too;

  • Fuel Poverty: DEEAP - Better co-ordination with different agenciesis needed. Knowledge is important, e.g. Scottish Power and Hydro can write off debt if a proper referral is made. Cheaper tariffs are available online, although this raises the issue of digital poverty
  • Isolation: Some befriending projects are good. Need more intergenerational projects. Could Duke of Edinburgh participants become involved? Community ‘loops’ need to be more expansive. Community newsletters are very important, but need money for delivery
  • Digital Poverty: Need to promote places people can meet to learn digital skills through e.g.churches, newsletters, and libraries. Better advertising could use local shops and the Olympia concourse

Volunteers were also recognised as supporting many services;

  • Volunteers contribute to the community. People interested in learning new things. A lot of youth work relies on volunteers
  • There is a volunteering database in Braeview to encourage early leavers into volunteering to build skills that they may not otherwise know about
  • Most of the volunteers are pensioners

Some comments were made that indicate things could be better;

  • Lots of sources of help are available, but often people do not know where to start
  • Community Groups – can petition DCC, but are not always listened to (officers sometimes miss scheduled meetings)
  • A person centred approach is important when it comes to services as one size doesn’t fit all and people have different circumstances
  • Services need to not patronise people
  • Triage is hopeless
  • Young people don’t always make the link that volunteering can be an opportunity for future employment

What gaps are there in the help available to people experiencing poverty?

A lack of awareness about services was highlighted as a gap at most tables;

  • Lack of information available on services, especially if not directly experiencing poverty,which makes it harder to help those who are in poverty
  • There is a lack of access to information about services(especially with respect to funeral costs), which leads to a lack of choice
  • Promotion - find ways to raise awareness - especially amongst the isolated and vulnerable
  • Better communication between services, and with communities. Word of mouth is very useful, but needs to be started somewhere

Other gaps and issues included;

  • More drug misuse support services are needed
  • One-stop shops would be useful as they bring services together and make access easier for those needing them. They also help to reduce stigma
  • Social Isolation needs to be addressed more
  • Are available courses age appropriate? Is a three year course manageable with a family?
  • Need to get stories out to everyone
  • There is a need to train the next generation. Inter-generational work could help with this
  • The stigma of asking for helpneeds to be reduced

What aspects of poverty do you think the Dundee Partnership should focus on and why?