CORRECTED VERSION
ECONOMICDEVELOPMENTCOMMITTEE
InquiryintotheViabilityoftheVictorianThoroughbred/StandardbredBreedingIndustries
Melbourne— 22 August 2005
Members
MrB. J. JenkinsMrN. F. Pullen
MrA. G. Robinson
Chair: MrA. G. Robinson
Staff
Executive Officer: Dr R. SolomonResearch Officer: Ms K. Newitt
Office Manager: Ms A. Agosta
Witnesses
MrD. Draper, Associate Director, Faculty of Earth Sciences; and
MrW. Pappin, Head, Agriculture and Animal Sciences Department, Northern MelbourneInstitute of TAFE.
TheCHAIR— The Committee welcomes David Draper and Wayne Pappin from Northern Melbourne Institute of TAFE. Welcome to the Economic Development Committee’s public hearings on the Inquiry into the viability of the Victorian Thoroughbred/Standardbred breeding industries. This inquiry has been asked to inquire into and present a report to Parliament. We will do that at the end of this year.Today is a public hearing so your comments will be recorded by Hansard. We will send you a copy of the transcript and you are welcome to make any suggested corrections. It is an important source of information for us as we compile the report— in addition to visits and informal meetings we have our own sources of information. Anything you have to say today is covered by parliamentary privilege but that only extends for the duration of the hearing. I do not expect you need to worry about that but we need to tell you as a rule. The hearing is also open to the media so it is possible that they will wander in and take notes. This is an allparty committee. We only have got three Labor members today but we are very openminded and we started this inquiry with a blank sheet of paper literally.It might be easier if we let you talk to us for a few minutes. I believe we got a formal submission from you today. We have not had anything going back earlier in the year. We did want to get NMIT along because you advertise, or you used to, all the time on Sport 927 and we were conscious of the role you played. So feel free to give us a few minutes on what it is that you have done up at Epping and then we will fire questions at you.
MrDRAPER— Thank you, Chair. I will start by extending an invitation to you and your committee either as a committee or as individuals to come out and visit the operations at Northern Lodge. It is about 35minutes out of Melbourne and we would welcome you if you want to come out and look at the operation.NMIT is the major provider of thoroughbred education in the state of Victoria. Currently this year we have 75breeding students enrolled, 32farriers and they are all in the industry, apprentice farriers, and we have 65students in the racing component of our courses totalling 104820 student contact hours. In addition to the recurrent programs we run, we also run about 25000 student contact hours internationally at full cost recovery. That represents about 50students. That training is done by the Malaysian Equine Council, Hong Kong Jockey Club and the Singapore Turf Club. There is also, we believe, huge potential for education particularly in Turkey, Dubai, South Korea and Vietnam but to name a few.
We have two resident stallions up at the stud and 35broodmares. We sell by Inglis’s in Melbourne and also the Magic Millions in Queensland or via auction. With the two resident stallions we also use a number of outside stallions and we have purchased a share inElvstroem and Jeune. The reason that we send our mares not only to our own stallions but also outside is we want to ensure that our students when they leave us are employable within the industry.Anybody can pick up a breeding book or any book and stand in front of a whiteboard and tell people how it should be done. We want to ensure that as the students work through our mares and work out what stallion is most appropriate for that mare, that they can follow it through, that our mares are put in foal to those particular stallions and at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding when we take them to the auctions. The students actually take them to the auctions. The diploma students are with us for two years so they get that opportunity. The lesser certificate, Certificate levelIII students, unfortunately do not that get that opportunity because the course does not run long enough.
We have just recently been given accreditation to run a degree in equine studies and we are veryexcited about that because we are one of the first TAFE colleges to be allowed to run degrees but more importantly in our equine area it gives us now an appropriate seamless education. Over the years there has been one disadvantage with the lower level courses such as the CertificateIII— stablehandtrack rider it used to be called; we have just changed the name of that. Maybe I will explain how our course operates.Students come to us and in the first six weeks they undertake the program. At the end of the six weeks we invite Roy Higgins to come out and to independently assess each individual within the course. So Roy on a oneonone basis identifies that particular student’s weakness and it is given back to the students and it is up to the staff to concentrate on their weaknesses rather than their strengths. They then go on for another three weeks trying to hone those weaknesses and then we send them out into industry.
Unfortunately one of the disadvantages with that is that the industry is snapping these people up and they are not getting the opportunity to finish the course. So NMIT had to then introduce both and night and weekend classes to enable the students to finish their particular course that they were undertaking. One of the criticisms I guess that we have received is that we cannot train enough people quick enough for the industry. That does not mean to say that there are millions of jobs out there for every person in Australia. It means that in some instances there is high turnover of staff particularly in the lower levels, the Certificate levelIII.
There is more potential. Four or five years ago the Bracks government redeveloped the AradalePsychiatric Hospital at Ararat and NMIT has developed what was called the AustralianCollege of Wine which is an actual wine label, and that has been verysuccessful. There is potential out at that Ararat campus to set up also equine studies training given that that whole region has very little training available to them. The last speaker was speaking about those that are in industry in a small concern. They find it very difficult to get access to the current education that is out there because at the end of the day their dollar really is then working in the field not sitting in a classroom. Even though we run courses over the weekend and in the evenings for a person to travel from Horsham or even farther afield, say, Swan Hill, it is a little bit difficult. I guess the opportunity is there.
In 1970 there was a forensics centre built on the Aradale campus. That is in verygood condition although I might clarify that the forensics centre was a series of little cells that were made up. That was used up to two years ago. With a small amount of funding those little cells could be remodelled to become accommodation sites for up to 26students which would give that area down there a bit of a lift but it also would give the industry opportunity. It is not just those that are currently in the industry; it would also give those Certificate levelIII stable handtrack rider people the opportunity to get some education without having to travel too far.
TheCHAIR— I want to ask about your experiences as a thoroughbred breeder yourself. But there would be two distinct categories: students who come along who have come from a background of being involved in horses and those who do not. Do you see any correlation with the results? If I am a student who comes and says, ‘I want to learn about horses but I have had nothing to do with them; I just think I like horses’, is there a higher incidence of that group not going through or being at the lesser end of the graduating group or is it totally random?
MrDRAPER— It is quite the opposite. We are finding that those students who are coming up through the riding schools and pony clubs etcetera are the ones who are dropping out because they are coming in with preconceived ideas about what the industry is about. I might add that our stud during the coming breeding season will have students there 24hours a day. We have a small, twobed unit that overlooks the foalingdown area. The problem exists that a lot of the students come to us all believing they are going to be Gai Waterhouses and do not realise that the industry starts at 4o’clock in the morning. It is not an easy industry. In some instances it can be a dirty industry. And those that come in with those preconceived ideas are the ones that——
TheCHAIR— I am going to stop you there because I am a bit worried that you are going to say that the young fellows who come on the course think they will end up being Robbie Waterhouses! We would have a separate inquiry start tomorrow if that is what is happening up there.
MrDRAPER— Sorry. It is quite the opposite for those coming through.
TheCHAIR— Just to follow up on that, the industry they go into, you are all about trying to lift educational standards and equip people with skills that they will apply, but the presumption really is that they go into an industry whose practitioners apply and acknowledge these skill levels and these standards and apply them regularly and hopefully build on them. I wonder how true that is, though? We have had stories and people have said things to us. For example, the AWU said some of the practices that are employed in some studs— and I did not mention names— were such that they were more or less told, ‘Go out in the paddock and look after the foal’.We have spoken to other studs, one of the bigger broodmare farms, and they gave an option to the broodmare owners as to whether they wanted to pay a foalingdown fee, which we think is quite strange. Why, if you are charging a lot of money and you have got horses worth a fair bit, would you even give an owner the option? What is your perspective on industry standards once the students have graduated? The industry they go into? What is your thinking there? Feel free to talk frankly.
MrDRAPER— I would like to make two comments. Tenper cent of the industry is well set up and is doing quite well and their standards are appropriate. It is the other 80 to 90per cent that have major problems.
TheCHAIR— Major problems?
MrDRAPER— I would say major problems. I noticed also, MrChairman, that the last speaker spokeon things like pasture management— it is not just pasture management.
TheCHAIR— No, but it gets across the question I asked you— it is about simple things like the fencing, things like the premises in which they house horses, simple things like the routines and how they are fed and exercised?
MrDRAPER— Exactly. It goes right across the whole board. And it also relates back to the way some of our exiting students are actually treated within some organisations, particularly with a lot of our female exiting students. Harassment has not really hit the industry in some areas.
TheCHAIR— What can we do about that? I do not mean specifically about harassment?
MrDRAPER— The whole problem.
TheCHAIR— The lack of observance of standards or dedication to improving standards among the practitioners in the industry, the actual stud farm operators.
MrDRAPER— I think there are a couple of things that could be done. It is obviously an educational program that needs to take place. Who actually pushes that barrow, I am not really sure, but the whole industry has to take responsibility, I guess, and it is an educational process.I think also, as time goes on, that positions within a lot of these studs and stables, if they are linked to the Australian quality training framework and the appropriate salaries are paid and the appropriate qualifications are there for those people, a lot of the problems will be weeded out.
TheCHAIR— We talk to farm operators and breeders and they say they just cannot get enough staff. You are telling us that your numbers are growing, that you have full books all the time, you are churning them out. Is it fair to say that a lot do not stay in the industry? They go into the industry and they get disenchanted and leave it quickly? Is this the sort of consequence of the exploitation and that it is not all beer and skittles and they do not stay in it very long after graduating?
MrDRAPER— Yes, I would say that is a fair comment. I would also say that whilst there is that top 10per cent of studs that do the right thing and pay appropriate salary ranges, the rest of them I think leave a bit to be desired. Given the long hours and the hard work they have to put in, in some instances for very little money, is why they leave the industry. They become disenchanted because of that.
MrJENKINS— David, do you have any idea about the numbers of people employed in the breeding side of the industry, maybe not just Victoria but also New South Wales, and the sort of improvements that could be made?
MrDRAPER— No, I do not have any figures on that. We track our students as best we can, given that when they leave us we find out where they are going, but that is about where it stops; my going on for three years away from the Institute is very difficult. Unless they return to us to further advance their education we lose track of them, so no, I do not have any.
MrJENKINS— I asked because a couple of people have given submissions about it and because the government is very keen on the performance situation in regional Victoria. It is an area that this committee has looked at before and whilst we all understand that having an increased and successful breeding industry will bring with it, no doubt, some jobs, we need to start to be able to quantify those. I would have thought one of the places to start with is the training institutions, so if you have the capacity at some stage to have a look through and try to gauge that or even get some points together as to how we could quantify those employment figures in the industry or what would be involved in the industry should it be expanded, I would be really keen to hear about that.
MrDRAPER— Certainly. I will take that on board and see what we can find out with some figures.
MrPULLEN— Would you expand on the role of that great man, Roy Higgins, and exactly what he does as a horseman at the Institute?
MrDRAPER— Certainly. Apart from advertising, obviously Roy has been a fantastic ambassador for us, so he has that role, but additionally he does all our stable track riders, that is where he comes into his own. He is also on our committee that selects. The students put up a series of stallions that a particular mare would like to go to and then there is an independent panel put together to review those submissions, if you like. Roy is also on that. Additionally Roy is our representative so that if we produce a yearling to go to sale, we put a reserve price on it. Obviously we do not want to give them away, and Roy is also on that panel that puts that reserve price on.
MrPULLEN— I was interested. Where did you get your stallions from in the first place?
MrDRAPER— Our first stallion was actually a donation, but two of our stallions that we have got were actually donations to us. Super Fiesta who is not on the list is now retired. He was given to us. Command Post was also given to us and we actually bought Flying Gulch.
TheCHAIR— You said you have got your own broodmares?
MrDRAPER— Yes, we do.
TheCHAIR— How do you choose those?
MrDRAPER— Again, Roy is on the panel. Roy, our stud manager and I are on the panel that goes through the books as they come out to select, and we have two standards of mares. We have our good mares, and then we have, if you like, an average run of mares as well. The idea of that is again to give the students the experience of putting in an average run of the line mare to a particular stallion, because it comes back to economics.
TheCHAIR— So the stud farm is located where? Northern Lodge is not at Epping itself?
MrDRAPER— No, it is at EdenPark.
TheCHAIR— EdenPark. How do you go with the sales? I know from time to time some of your horses have been offered at Inglis sales.I think it was Collingrove that put together the stats that said if your horse is not going to make $20000, you are going to lose money on it, so that is a controlled loss in a sense— that is, for sales stuff. You go through those sales because that is the only way to do it. Is there any other option for selling off directly from the stud itself?