MINUTES OF MEETING OF CHUTE PARISH COUNCIL
April 11th 2013
Chute Village Hall
Present:
Cllr Quirk
Cllr Haines
Cllr Sykes
Cllr Foxen
Cllr Taylor
Cllr Warrender
Apologies
Cllr Caddick
Cllr Howard
Wiltshire Police
The Meeting was attended by 18 members of the public
1. TO RECORD ANY APOLOGIES.
Members are reminded that, in accordance with the Council’s Code of Conduct, they must declare any personal and/or prejudicial interests and leave the meeting if appropriate.
2. TO RECEIVE ANY MEMBER'S DECLARATION OF INTEREST AS REGARDS ITEMS ON THIS AGENDA.
Cllr Taylor Agenda item 11 the allotments- Potential Allotment holder
Cllr Quirk Agenda item E/13/0307/FUL Change of use of Public House to form single dwelling, planting & landscaping to form residential gardens. The Cross Keys Upper Chute. – Save our pub member
Cllr Haines Agenda item E/13/0305/FUL Single story extension to Keepers Cottage Chute Cadley – Neighbouring property
3. TO APPROVE AND SIGN, AS A CORRECT RECORD, THE MINUTES OF THE MARCH 14TH 2013
The minutes were approved as a true record and proposed by Cllr Taylor and Seconded by Cllr Haines
4. TO DISCUSS ANY MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES OF THE MEETINGS ON MARCH 14TH 2013
No matters arising
5. TO RECEIVE REPORTS FROM WILTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCILLOR AND WILTSHIRE POLICE
The following report was received:
Between 23/02/13 and 16/03/13 Village hall had heating oil and six recycling boxes stolen.
30/03/13 seven motorcycles were reported, seen riding across Collingbourne Wood, the police attended within 30 minutes, no trace.
30/03/13 Someone reported the loss of her mobile phone, an iPhone5, colour black, in the vicinity of Upper Chute, please contact us if found.
05/04/13 Alarm activation Chute Standen, false alarm
09/04/13 11.00am Large cat sighted, a motorist reported seeing a cat the size of an Alsatian dog, described as a lynx, by the A342 south of Collingbourne Woods; no subsequent sightings have been reported.
The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 7.35pm to allow members of the public to speak as follows.
1. The Cross Keys Planning Application for change to a residential property.
Thanks were given to the council chairman to allow the public to speak and a document was circulated by the Chair of the “Save our Pub” committee for discussion. The contents of which are annexed to the minutes.
The chair of the group explained that Mr Humphrey, the owner of the Cross Keys was a very likeable person and the comments in the report were not personal to him.
In summary:-
There is overwhelming support in Upper Chute to retain the Cross Keys as a Public House both now and for future generations.
The building is circa 200 years old and part of the village history.
It was considered that the asking sale price was optimistic and a recent survey done on similar public houses which were comparable were on the market in the £300k region.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer Chancellor has given support to the pub trade with 1p per pint off and MP Clare Perry is a supporter of local pubs
The Crown at Upton and The George at Vernham Dean which have both closed in the past are open and thriving.
The Fox at Tangley and The Cricketers are also doing well under good management.
The Cross keys has not been offered for sale since its closure, and the council was requested to turn down the planning application.
Mr George Humphrey the owner of the Cross Keys responded as follows:
Mr Humphrey thanked the chair of the “Save our Pub” campaign
But pointed out that two points are incorrect.
Firstly, the profit shown in the report was before EBTDA and no mortgage or depreciation costs have been taken into account.
Mortgage and vat payments would account for over an additional £30k
In the planning process, the lack of need, the reality, the viability and alternative facilities are taken into consideration and he considers that the Cross Keys is unviable.
Significant losses were made in the first three years of trading which were not documented and accepted as a learning period by Mr Humphries followed by a further four years of losses. Mr Humphries gave the Chairman of CPC details of personal cash put into the business which was to remain confidential.
Mr Humphries also pointed out that there were errors in the dates in the report of the timing of the sale which went on the market at the end of 2010 after being awarded Country Pub of the Year award.
He also pointed out that the village had further community facilities namely The Hatchet Inn, a Village Hall for meetings, a Chute Club and a Church
The distances stated in the CAMRA viability assessment were worked out by CAMRA and the survey demonstrated that the Cross Keys sold the cheapest beer and had also introduced a “Happy Hour”
He had not received any complaints about the quality of food, and the management was not aware of any issues regarding opening hours.
Three former employees were also present at the meeting and were prepared to answer any further questions.
Cllr Warrender enquired why the offer of £650k had not progressed.
Mr Humphrey replied that the agents handling the sale assessed that the interested party could not raise the finance.
Cllr Warrender also enquired whether any more interest had been shown to which Mr Humphreys explained that no there had not.
He also explained that the general public are not going out to drink as much as in the past. The price of alcohol has escalated and 40p has been added to a pint in the last five years, added to which in addition supermarkets can sell beer at eight bottles for the price of 1 bottle in a pub. Also the price of food has escalated and the price of beef has gone up 20%.
After seven years of trading he concluded that he could not make it work and also the pub did not attract passing trade since it lies at the end of a road. In general people were not prepared to travel to The Cross Keys and it was only supported by twenty locals.
All factors put together he could not make a profit and he could not see the economic situation will not changing in the near future,
Cllr Taylor enquired whether an offer had been received by the owner of The Fox at Tangley. Mr Humphreys confirmed that no, there had not.
He was asked by a member of the public if he had not had a mortgage, would the pub have been successful, he replied that yes it would but this was a business decision.
A member of the public also replied that anyone would look very hard at funding a public house as no-one with cash would buy outright.
No further questions were asked, and the chairman re-convened the meeting at 8.05pm
Agenda item No 9 E/13/0307/FUL Change of use of Public House to form single dwelling, planting & landscaping to form residential gardens. The Cross Keys Upper Chute was bought forward on the agenda for comment by the councillors present as follows:
Cllr Taylor objected to the application on the grounds that the village would be lost without a pub as the heart of village
Cllr Sykes stated that the Cross Keys had always been a pub, and the current market should be tested and assessed.
Cllr Warrender stated that Mr Humphries had tried hard to make the pub a going concern and to sell it as such. He also voiced a perception that if change of use application was successful the property could be sold subsequently be sold for a higher value. Therefore one more attempt to selling it as a going concern should be made.
Cllr Haines stated that although the market had been tested, it should be tested once more over a limited period. However, this was not first time the Cross Keys had closed; the previous time was when the country was not in recession and experiencing better weather.
Cllr Haines also commented that it appeared that some forty additional customers spending £800 per annum were needed to achieve viability.
Cllr Foxen – Believed the pub was already lost, that Mr Humphrey had done his best, but the pub should be on the market for sale as a residential property
The council resolved to object to the application and that the viability of the market is tested firstly and that the business is put back on the market for sale as a going concern.
The was proposed by Cllr Quirk and seconded by Cllr Taylor
6. KING GEORGE FIELD UPDATE
The only additions to the March report are that wooden ramps are now considered for the container for access, and that a work party will carry out repairs on April 13th 2013.
7. VILLAGE HALL UPDATE
Mrs C Wall the chair of the Village Hall confirmed that the hall would remain in- situ for the immediate future.
Costs for repairs had been received on replacing the rotten kitchen windows at a cost of £5000.
She also confirmed that she is looking into the cost of installing a ground source heat pump as the current oil heating system is too expensive and that the oil has been stolen on two occasions.
An anonymous donation had been received of £374 from a local resident.
8. FINANCE
7.1 To approve payment for April Meeting Chute Village Hall
7.2 To approve Clerks final expenses for March 2013
The above payments were approved and proposed by Cllr Sykes and seconded by Cllr Haines.
9. PLANNING APPLICATIONS. - TO RECEIVE, CONSIDER AND COMMENT ON PLANNING APPLICATIONS AS RECEIVED FROM WILTSHIRE COUNCIL.
E/13/0305/FUL Single story extension to Keepers Cottage Chute Cadley
This application was supported and proposed by Cllr Taylor and seconded by Cllr Warrender.
E/13/0379/LBA Installation of Oil Tank and Retro Application for Garden Shed. No 2 Tolleys Chute Cadley.
This application was supported and proposed Cllr Sykes and seconded by Cllr Haines.
10. HIGHWAYS UPDATE
The Clerk confirmed that details of the new highways structure were awaited.
Cllr Quirk noted that the Oak tree roots in Forest Lane were now a hazard. The clerk to advise the Highways department.
The meeting was adjourned at 8.10 to allow the members of the public present to speak on the agenda item 11 the allotments.
Questions Asked were as follows:
Could the allotments be renamed the Bill Merritt allotments in memory of Bill Merritt who had recently passed away as he had done many years’ service in maintaining the allotments.
This was agreed in principle subject to this being put in writing and will be an agenda item at the May meeting and his family to be informed.
A further question was the cost of a water supply. The clerk confirmed that this was in the region of £3000. A suggestion was made that the allotment holders could dig the trenches and that the only supplied would be the plumbing and connection. The clerk to investigate the cost of this proposal.
Cllr Quirk also pointed out that a successful connection would need to be metered and cost of water used apportioned between holders.
The clerk advised that a survey of local allotments had been taken and that rents in Wiltshire for allotments without water ranged from £16.50 per annum to £30.00.
Cllr Foxen asked what the current rental of the Upper Chute allotments was, and the Clerk advised it was £5.00 per annum.
A question was asked about the size of the allotments and the clerk confirmed that this was based in rods and a similar size.
It was asked what happened to the rental income, and this was advised by Cllr Sykes that the money was included in the Parish precept and it was the duty of the parish to collect income for the allotments.
It was proposed that no increase would take place in 2013 and this was proposed by Cllr Sykes and seconded by Cllr Foxen.
The clerk advised that the buildings previously owned by Mr Merritt would be donated to the allotment holders, but the council would not accept any liability or replacement of them.
The meeting reconvened at 8.20pm
11. ELECTIONS MAY 2ND
The clerk advised that the total candidates was ten and proposed that an informal evening was held at the hall so that parishioners can meet the meet and greet the prospective candidates. This was agreed and will be held on May 1st between 7 and 8pm.
The clerk to arrange publicity.
12. TCAB
A letter has been received from Colonel Tabor, the Chairman of Tidworth Community Area Board requesting funding.
It was agreed by all that the council did not have the necessary funding to support this association.
The co-ordinator of TCAB has requested a nomination for the TCAB awards and suggested the organiser of the Queens Jubilee. The council agreed to decline this year.
13. ANY OTHER BUSINESS:
Cllr Taylor requested that Mr and Mrs Gifford be added to the allotment waiting list.
The clerk requested that this is put in writing to her.
Cllr Foxen stated that a large pothole on Andover Lane caused a blowout. The clerk to advise the Highways Dept.
Cllr Foxen requested an update on waste dumping on Land adjacent to New Buildings.
The clerk advised that the owner of the land has still not been identified as not registered with the land registry, but Wiltshire Council enforcement officer is looking into this.
Cllr Foxen requested advice on tree removal and what constituted a Tree Protection Order. Cllr Sykes advised Cllr Foxen to contact the Wiltshire Council Arbory expert Simon Turner.