Working Group
Minutes from the meeting on 9th of August, 2001 at the Treasury
Chair: Roger Waite (Treasury)
Participants:
Martin Small, Jagadish Guria (LTSA), Grant Baker (Conservation), Mark Booth (Health), Marg Harvey (Labour), David Toohey (IRD), Leon Bakker (Corrections), Brenda Pilott (DCYFS), Margaret Niven (Customs), Greg Claridge (SSC), Chris Ussher (Treasury)
Summary of Action Points:
Introduction (Greg Claridge)
The key messages from this item are captured in the PowerPoint presentation.
Participants’ expectations/issues (Agency Representatives)
A summary of agencies’ expectations is attached as Annex 1.
Operation of the Working Group (Chris Ussher)
The key messages from this item are captured in the PowerPoint presentation, which is attached.
Ø The Working Group agreed to meet from 1-3pm on the first Thursday of each month.
Ø The Working Group agreed that it was appropriate to use a variety of fora for sharing information within the Pathfinder Project: presentations, workshops, mentoring relationships, e-mail discussion groups, web site etc. These ideas will be incorporated into the work plan as it is developed.
Participants noted that:
§ Pathfinder should be forum for sharing advice, and getting “free advice”.
§ Agencies need to be prepared to make mistakes and to share lessons from their mistakes with the Working Group, if Pathfinder is to be successful.
§ In future meetings, more time is needed for discussion.
Timetable for Presentations (Agency representatives)
The Working Group identified a list of possible presentations. This list is attached as Annex 2. Critical issues noted were:
§ How can agencies get the key messages out of presentations? Three ideas were:
§ Present ideas at a formative stage of development.
§ Ensure that the people presenting have as much practical experience as possible.
§ Encourage discussion forums rather than straight presentations, where appropriate.
§ We should start with the basics: how to define and measure outcomes that have high-value for management decision-making.
The Working Group provisionally identified a number of themes for early sessions:
§ Measurement and definition of outcomes, including lessons on research and evaluation, and data management.
§ Making inter-sectoral links.
§ Influencing public attitudes.
§ Managing change/managing at the right level.
§ Planning and developing strategy.
Other themes identified include:
§ managing political interaction.
Presentation: Managing for Outcomes (Roger Waite)
The key messages from this item are captured in the PowerPoint presentation.
Discuss Short-term wins (Agency representatives)
Comments made on the short-term wins include:
§ The ideas provide a good framework for future work.
§ It is possible that the current framework could engender a checklist mentality.
§ The wins are iterative not linear. Feedback loops, particularly in items 1-4, need to be captured better in the presentation of the material.
§ A key limitation in the outcomes management game is the availability and quality of information.
§ Change management and the need for consultation permeate each of the wins and are core parts of developing outcomes management frameworks.
It was noted that an evaluation framework was needed for the Pathfinder Project. Roger Waite agreed and noted that Pathfinder will have succeeded if:
§ all the ‘wins’ identified in the Short-Term Wins paper are achieved; and
§ the agencies collectively demonstrate the feasibility and value of managing for outcomes in the state sector.
Next Steps / Wrap-up (Chair)
Two things need to be done:
Annex 1 – Agency Expectations
Martin Small (LTSA)
LTSA:
§ noted that there are benefits putting each agency’s outcomes work into the wider Government context.
§ is working to improve its strategic planning processes.
§ is keen to look at “spill-over” outcomes: how do interventions in specific sectors contribute to a variety of different outcomes across Government.
§ identified that its next big challenge is to change the organisational structure and culture to focus better on outcomes.
Grant Baker (Conservation)
The Department of Conservation wants to:
§ define its desired outcomes, including both intermediate and end outcomes.
§ integrate the information sets required for management, with those required for internal and external reporting.
Mark Booth (Health)
The Ministry of Health wants to:
§ link DHB outcomes with national health outcomes.
§ ensure comparability of measures with OECD/WHO.
§ link outcomes into management practices.
Marg Harvey (Labour)
The Department of Labour:
§ has set in place clear outcome statements.
§ is working to integrate whole of government outcomes and service specific outcomes;
§ wishes to share experiences with other agencies.
§ wants to advance cross-agency work such as the employment strategy and the e-government strategy.
Mark Toohey (IRD)
IRD wants to:
§ develop a framework to bridge the gaps between the department’s outputs and its outcomes.
§ develop better information for the longer term, and is interested in data management.
§ get the whole agency to buy-in to its key outcomes.
Leon Bakker (Corrections)
The Department of Corrections:
§ is about to produce its first outcomes focused report.
§ is interested in exploring cross-sectoral impacts related to Corrections.
§ wants to integrate outcomes better into its strategic planning.
Brenda Pilott (CYF)
CYF wants to:
§ define its outcomes.
§ develop outcomes measures.
§ develop intervention logics linking outputs to outcomes.
§ integrate outcomes into planning and prioritisation processes.
Margaret Niven (Customs)
Customs wants to:
§ learn from other agencies.
§ test its ideas.
§ develop a Statement of Intent.
§ get a better grasp of intermediate outcomes.
§ pilot methods of demonstrating the impacts of outputs on outcomes.
Chris Ussher summarised the key expectations of the Sponsors’ Group. Members of the Sponsors’ Group want to:
§ demonstrate how their organisations add value to Government.
§ align business processes better to outcomes, and fit outcomes in wider management frameworks.
§ go beyond just measuring outcomes.
§ share good and bad experiences and learn from others.
§ identify cross-sectoral links.
§ develop and reshape their organisations’ capability to deliver on outcomes.
§ make the cultural changes necessary to integrate outcomes into the way their organisations plan and conduct their business.
Annex 2 – Ideas for Possible Presentations
Employment Relations Evaluation – work in progress
Employment Relations Service Outcome Measurement – work in progress
Health / Health and Independence Report – work in progress
Intersectional Collaboration
Land Transport Safety Authority / Evaluation Techniques – Value Statistical Life, Supplementary Road Safety Package
Road Safety Strategy 2010
– Process
– Models
Corrections / Evaluation Techniques
Model/Data Quality
Business Case – Overall Process
Inland Revenue Department / Data Warehouse
Customs / MORST Project – report back
Child, Youth and Family Services / Client Outcomes Project – Organisation Change Management
Research Project
Department of Conversation / Working at The Right Level
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