Alert: This is a formal class on principals underlying the Torah as found in the classic text, Derech Hashem. Please limit room text to questions on the subject matter being discussed at the time. We will have 2 breaks for questions on the mic, 30 seconds each.

Alert: Redottext is currently on.

BCWoman61: chag samaech jacqueline, Yehoshua and home

Isibel: Shalom Yehoshua

Isibel: So I have a question

BEHANU: The instructor has a question ... uh oh

Isibel: Would people like me to read through the introduction

BEHANU: Ramchal's Intro -- yes

BEHANU: not the book intro

BEHANU: my 2 cents

Isibel: Ok

Isibel: anyone else?

BEHANU: anyone else??

dawidh_nz: i second the cents of behanu

BEHANU: haha

jacqueline_54_1953: same to you , BC.. I am running late.. still stuffing my face. but wanted to make sure I got in

SueAna: 1

Isibel: This sond is a niggun

Isibel: song

SHeMABruce: The intro? Yes. good idea

BCWoman61: no fair Behanu, your two cents weigh more than the rest of ours together

BEHANU: jackie ... chew, swallow, repeat

SHeMABruce: in my opinion

Isibel: Ok thanks bruce

BEHANU: Not with my wife BC

jacqueline_54_1953: lol behanu..

BEHANU: worth a half shekel

BEHANU: old shekel

SueAna: altho the music is good too

SueAna: lol

beowulf44: lets dance

BEHANU: This tune is a niggun

BEHANU: hum along

BEHANU:

SHeMABruce: Isibel, just so you know, I weld my admin sword often and swiftly.

BEHANU: yes dance music!

BEHANU: THE SWORD OF BRUCE!

jacqueline_54_1953: lol bruce . so does she

Isibel: Great Bruce that is important

Isibel:

BEHANU: WELCOME! This is a formal class on principals underlying the Torah as found in the classic text, Derech Hashem. Please limit room text to questions on the subject matter being discussed at the time. We will have 2 breaks for questions on the mic, 30 seconds per person. Class info at - class begins at 9 pm eastern.

SHeMABruce: but if auto redots are placed when people enter the room, my sword will likely collect no blood

Isibel: One last song after this and then Ill stop the music

BCWoman61: Isibel, I remember the last time you did this in a locked room. I am glad the room is open this time

BEHANU: my 9 yr old just pointed out the number of people in the room is posted at top ... i dont need to count by hand .... duh

Isibel: Yes, well my whole understanding has changed alot since then

Isibel: Its more than worth going through the book more than once

SHeMABruce: well, i just learned something also from you child, behanu. lol

BCWoman61: trust a young one to know the technology Behanu

BEHANU: Everyone ready for their first "shock treatment?" LOL

beowulf44: 36 peeps in the room? kewl

Isibel: Remember, first and formost I am not here to convert you to my way of thinking

BCWoman61: hello beo. Chag samaech

SHeMABruce: just before it starts everyone needs to send out invites

beowulf44: ty bc woman, chag sameach

SHeMABruce: i will

SHeMABruce: Really folks, this is an ENORMOUSLY useful topic of study. You will all be blessed by it and will learn a LOT

BEHANU: Bruce is just asking for it ...

BCWoman61: Stiff competition since hamekane is debating Rock Guitarist in another room on yshu hanotzri in the oral traditions

BEHANU: Hey

BEHANU: I know this tune!

BEHANU: MATISYAHU

Isibel: and also not trying to get anyone to agree with what the Ramchal is saying, there are things that may be very difficult for people to take as thier own belief, but I ask only that you try and understand things from the perspective of the Ramchal

BEHANU: This is very cool

SHeMABruce: ENGLISH!!!

SHeMABruce: lol

Isibel: LOL

SHeMABruce: i can understand it now! lol

Isibel: yes

Isibel: Lashon Kodesh is understood by some part of you Bruce

BEHANU: This song is getting mega airplay on secular stations

beowulf44: matisyahu...the rappin chassidic

SHeMABruce: i like this song.

Alert: An admin joined the room: David_42

SHeMABruce: never heard it

BCWoman61: his style has changed some since he broke on the scene, but he has good messages

Wesleyismyname: what is the name of this

beowulf44: yes, matisyahu always sings good messages....callin g for Messiah to come in several

Isibel: It is called "One Day" on the Light cd

jacqueline_54_1953: westly in the room title..

BCWoman61: hello lev, chag samaech

Isibel: by Matisyahu

SHeMABruce: wow. i REALLY like this song!

jacqueline_54_1953: ohh sorry you are asking about the song

Wesleyismyname: the song

BCWoman61: hello warrior, chag samaech

Isibel: Its my Derech HaShem theme song

Isibel: LOL

Isibel: it really is if you read the lyrics

SHeMABruce: good one isibel

BEHANU: theme song eh?

beowulf44: deep lyrics

BEHANU: i thought it was gonna be that tune from Veggie Tales

Isibel: LOL

BEHANU: LOL

SHeMABruce: ok. where can i get this song. it gets me teary eyed.

BEHANU: Don't !

BEHANU: Play that

BEHANU: isis

BEHANU: isibel

YehoshuaBA: i'm ready with the audio recorder

BEHANU: His new CD

warriorofyeshua: Shalom BEHANU, Isibel, David, Yehoshua, and Bruce

beowulf44: i can catch matisyahu on youtube . lotsa videos

SHeMABruce: same here yehoshua.

BEHANU: Good - 2 recordings

BEHANU: better than 1

jacqueline_54_1953: torahman are you here ?

SHeMABruce: maybe with 2 recording we won't mess up

BEHANU: exactly bruce

jacqueline_54_1953: BEHANU torahman is goingto record also for his room...

BEHANU: 39 people - 1 lash for each

BEHANU: 1 more tune!

Isibel: One more song?

SHeMABruce: i'm sure the file size will be HUGE until it is exported to a different format, however.

sherryr: Behanu, I watched Ushpazim, is there somewhere in Torah it talks about the four species?

warriorofyeshua: rofl BEHANU

jacqueline_54_1953: yes behanu I watched it also. and now i know what you meant about be careful what you pray for lol

BCWoman61: sure another song would be good so I can get that coffee behanu ordered

BEHANU: this is psalm 121

Isibel: Psalm 121

BEHANU: yes sherry

luminous_spirit: i think i need to leave and return.. i still don't see a mic.. or maybe i should just leave it.. since i can hear

BEHANU: yehoshua

BEHANU: can you get the verses for betty

warriorofyeshua: hoo hoo. Yosef Kardurner

YehoshuaBA: hold on

Isibel: mah kara?

Alert: An admin left the room: SHeMABruce

Isibel: warrior you dont like Karduner?

Isibel: lol

BEHANU: Ushpizin is a GREAT Torah movie -- rent it asap!

Alert: An admin joined the room: SHeMABruce

dawidh_nz: lol

dawidh_nz: i bought it

warriorofyeshua: yes Isibel, I like Kardurner

BCWoman61: luminous, you can reboot the room without leaving.

dawidh_nz: i've been waiting for them to make the sequel

dawidh_nz: but they haven't

Isibel: Ok misunderstood

Strider_100: i don't see mic either ... but sound is good

warriorofyeshua: I see mic

warriorofyeshua: so...

Wesleyismyname: i see mic

SHeMABruce: this song is also nice. Which i could understand it. Rats! I hate being hebrew iliterate.

luminous_spirit: it sure is Strider

dawidh_nz: isibel.. have lyrics anywhere?

Isibel: OK we will hit the highlights of the intro

luminous_spirit: i love this music

Isibel: put if you have the book read it all its very nice

SHeMABruce: Isibel, say "when" so we can start recording

Isibel: I will read the sections for everyone

Isibel: Yes Im just getting my stuff organized

Isibel: then ok

BEHANU: organized?

BEHANU: not that!

BEHANU: lol

warriorofyeshua: rofl... BEHANU, you saying she isn't organized?

warriorofyeshua: lolol

BCWoman61: isn't that the whole point of Derech hashem Behanu?

BEHANU: yes bc

BEHANU: you took words out of my mouth

BEHANU: WHEN?

BEHANU: record ....

dawidh_nz:

jacqueline_54_1953: no warrior the opposite.. he is the one who less organized than the wife is

dawidh_nz: woo hoo

dawidh_nz: no sound

renkablue: no sound

Isibel: ok

BEHANU: 1 sec

BEHANU: switching to mic

dawidh_nz:

BCWoman61: she's switching from sound card to mic

BEHANU: lo tech

warriorofyeshua: ah crap, we got a storm starting... now

warriorofyeshua: Shalom everyone

BEHANU: ancient chinese sage

BEHANU: lo tech

BCWoman61: Behanu send the 9 year old

warriorofyeshua:

dawidh_nz: 10

dawidh_nz: 9

dawidh_nz: 8

dawidh_nz: 7

renkablue: nd

renkablue: no sound

YehoshuaBA: 1

BCWoman61: 1 good Isibel

renkablue: 1

LevEchad: 1

jacqueline_54_1953: hey youngin make sure you dont' float away in that rain..

dawidh_nz: yes have lift off

SHeMABruce: 1

Wesleyismyname: 1

TwinkleInHisEye: 1

luminous_spirit: 1

dawidh_nz: yes

LevEchad: yes hear

LadyOfWisdom: 1

YehoshuaBA: 1

SHeMABruce: 1

jacqueline_54_1953: 1

dawidh_nz: yes

dawidh_nz:

BEHANU: 1

BEHANU: 1.1.1

BEHANU: Ramchal = Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto ... mid 1700's

davidebyrum: has the class started yet

BEHANU: Aryeh Kaplan

BEHANU: just now david

davidebyrum: ok, thanks...can I record for my records so I can listen again and again

YehoshuaBA: sherryr: read Lev 23:40 - that is where the four species comes from. There is commentary about in the Talmud and other Jewish writings.

SHeMABruce: Please restrict your texting please so that attention can be focused on the speaker. If necessary, the admins will have to act to insure this happens.

Marciyah: is anyone recording this?

BEHANU: yes

Marciyah: k

Marciyah: 7

BlkPraiseAngel: 1

luminous_spirit: 1

dawidh_nz: i'll want a copy cause i have to run off to work soon

Wesleyismyname: 1

BEHANU: 1

rachelkeane: y

BEHANU: in text

jeremiah3131: i'm staying out of this so u do not have to worry about this side of the peanut factory

BEHANU: If you have a Q on something she is saying - it is OK to put it in text

SHeMABruce: there are multiple recording efforts. The recordings will be made available when they are formatted properly for distribution.

SHeMABruce: The material being discussed in shown in the room banner shown about the chat area of at the top.

SHeMABruce: above the chat area

SHeMABruce: Discussion is occurring of the material shown above the chat area in the room banner.

sherryr: Ty YehoshuaBA

SimchatTorah1880: hi YehoshuaBA

BEHANU: ok we will not start part 1.1.1

BEHANU: now start

A D A M_3: what page please

Marciyah: 31

Marciyah: 32

SHeMABruce: Discussion is occurring of the material shown above the chat area in the room banner. Please limit your texting to specific questions regarding the material.

SHeMABruce: Point: The overriding purpose of the book is to bring you into a relationship with The Almighty Creator God.

SHeMABruce: Point: God is unity to the utmost - an absolute ONENESS.

BCWoman61: spelt ein sof?

SHeMABruce: yes, BC.

BEHANU: Ein Sof = Without End

Wesleyismyname: no end

SHeMABruce: ONE entity with multiple aspects/characteristics.

BCWoman61: hebrew characters pls

Marciyah: when can we ask questions?

SHeMABruce: Discussion is occurring of the material shown above the chat area in the room banner. Please limit your texting to specific questions regarding the material.

BEHANU: you can type in text if on the current topuc

SHeMABruce: Marci, if you type a question, i assume it will remain in the window and be available later for answering by scrolling.

BEHANU: topic

Marciyah: I will wait

BEHANU: we will have a break for questions on mic ... limited to what was discussed ... 30 seconds per

SHeMABruce: I recommend, perhaps, that you open a simple "Notepad" file window and type questions as they come to you, then later you can read you questions. This will prevent you forgetting your question.

Marciyah: I always have a note pad bruce

luminous_spirit: me too Marci.. and post-its

SHeMABruce: Point: It is IMPOSSIBLE that a being NOT exist who is not bound by physicial laws. Such a being MUST exist.

jacqueline_54_1953: behanu PM please

SHeMABruce: IMPORTANT! ALL things exists ONLY because the Creator sustains them.

Marciyah: can we have a source please for them dropping dead

BEHANU: Marciyah -- PM me that Q

SHeMABruce: please define "midrash" for those who do not know.

BCWoman61: it's in the oral tradition marci

BEHANU: I will be the R&D dept

Marciyah: Bc yes I asking the source

jacqueline_54_1953: Behanu please

luminous_spirit: ty Bruce

BEHANU: Midrash are homiletical teachings based on torah principles

LevEchad: beautiful Isibel, thank you

SHeMABruce: Existence is overcoming to grow closer to Hashem.

luminous_spirit: shalom Lev.. good to see you again

SHeMABruce: Point: ONLY ONE being can be self-existent. And there can be no more than ONE.

jacqueline_54_1953: bruce please

SHeMABruce: please what?

Jean Elizabeth: hello everybody

Marciyah: hi

davidebyrum: I think she means stop posting your POINT

SHeMABruce: ok

jacqueline_54_1953: ty

BCWoman61: I appreciate it Bruce, it helps me stay on track with which section is being discussed

jacqueline_54_1953: BC then let him continue.. I can lower the room so I can hear and not see. it is not helping me . but if it helps you . .I can do so you can stay on track

luminous_spirit: it was helping me as well

olivesnr: bruce are we allowed to ask quation?

renkablue: G-d put Himself in nature so that no one would have an excuse. So did He hide Himself in Nature?

BEHANU: Let do 1 person with a question on MIC then Isibel response

Isibel: go ahead olive

BEHANU: If there are any

SHeMABruce: go olive

BCWoman61: I am fine with what the majority wants, but thank you for the offer

BEHANU: Please limit to about 30 seconds per Q

Marciyah: 7

SHeMABruce: yes

Isibel: yes

SHeMABruce: God desires to fellowship with us. He loves us and wishes a relationship.

jacqueline_54_1953: then in some aspect isibel. he does need us.. because without us he could not have that relationship or that desire fulfilled , correct?

SHeMABruce: Exodus 34

TwinkleInHisEye: yes

olivesnr: yes pls isibel if u could give us the link

SHeMABruce: Loving someone requires learning about the object of your love.

BEHANU: maciyah - come back up again if you have another q

davidebyrum: what was the question

BEHANU: the q was 'what tradition' is rqmchal refering to

SHeMABruce: FYI: Since this is being recorded, it would be good to maximize your mic's output to insure it is recorded.

A D A M_3: , Isbel,,,,,can you repeat the questions for us as you answer?

Marciyah: ok

SHeMABruce: FYI applied to questioners.

SimchatTorah1880: BE is the rqmchal the author of Derech Hashem

josephm153: Bruce I have to go how can i get a copy of this?

BCWoman61: Adam Marci's question was on Page 31 the Ramchal references traditions from the Patriarchs and Prophets, which ones.

David_42: audio can be adjusted in recordings

SHeMABruce: joseph, when we format the recordings so that they can be distributed, I'm sure we will make people aware of their availability.

Isibel: Yes I would agree very much tha is why we are here

josephm153: thanks

BEHANU: marciya - we can take a couple more Qs

BEHANU: we will resume the text after a few more Qs

SHeMABruce: don't be mic shy folks. if you have a question, ask it.

BCWoman61: but Isibel that doesn't mean he NEEDS us, does it?

SHeMABruce: God doesn't "need" us at all. He is self-existent.

SHeMABruce: He also has other created beings. He is not alone.

A D A M_3: not need....but desires to share HIMSELF with us.

SHeMABruce: right

luminous_spirit: not need in the same sense that WE need

SHeMABruce: right.

Marciyah: BC do you mean that perhaps in needing us that he is maybe inadequate? lacking .....great question

BCWoman61: right Bruce, but a little up in the scroll jacqueline stated something "he does need us.. because without us he could not have that relationship or that desire fulfilled"

SHeMABruce: "Needing" something means one cannot survive without it. God can survive without us.

BCWoman61: yes Marci, need indicates he is lacking something or is incomplete without us, but he is not

Marciyah: ok, BC i can see him needing us without being almighty

beowulf44: G-d doesn`t need us at all. he can establish relationships with the angels, no? so...why again did G-d create us?

SHeMABruce: I "need" oxygen. I "need" water. I "need" food.

Marciyah: i do not think that diminishes Him

BEHANU: Isibel response?

renkablue: G_d's definition of Love is different than human love

BCWoman61: right Bruce, need indicates cannot survive without whereas hashem absolutely does not need us or any other relationship to be complete

Marciyah: I do think the would be The Most High withouting to share with us

Marciyah: he

jacqueline_54_1953: right if i die tomorrow . he will still want a relationship with others. that is why i think it is that he desires a relationship with his creation. and i alone am not his creation

SHeMABruce: Marci, i can't understand what you just typed.

Marciyah: me neither Bruce

Marciyah: lol

jacqueline_54_1953: for his creation is more than us indivisually

BCWoman61: I understand what you are saying Marci, but I don't think any title indicates the hashem is reliant on any part of his creation to define him

Marciyah: I do not think he would be The Most High, it is in his nature to share

jacqueline_54_1953: yes BC I agree with that..

BCWoman61: I think the titles revealed to us are simply so we can grasp aspects of the whole which is hashem. We see fragments and those titles help us to comprehend that which is incomprehensible.

SHeMABruce: Also, there are those who WILL be with God, thus satisfying His desire for relationship (Moses, David, Isaiah, Samuel, etc., etc., etc.). He's already got relationships even if we choose to forsake a relationship with Him.

Marciyah: BC I agree he is The Most High all by himself but even the concept of him desiring still shows a need to me and it does not in my mind makes me think that he is in any way lacking

renkablue: His Gllorious Being existed in eternity past - unfathomible time past....it was only in recent past that man was created. He didn't need us then

davidebyrum: can you speak up please....

davidebyrum: yes

Wesleyismyname: 1

BEHANU: If everyone is ok, we will resume the text and have another mic Q@A later on.

BCWoman61: better thank you Isibel

Marciyah: Psalms says "what is man that you are mindful of him and the son of man that you think of him"

SHeMABruce: I think, Isibel, that even in some questions being suggested, that the habit of applying physical things (needs) to God is difficult to overcome.

jacqueline_54_1953: yes marciyah.. i agree

beowulf44: i keep thinking of that verse akso, marci

BEHANU: Keep in mind that as we move on in this study a lot of things will be explained

jacqueline_54_1953: with what you typed , that was basically what I was tyring to say

NO_Church_n_State: shalom

BEHANU: precept on precept

A D A M_3: does absolute love have a desire to share LOVE?\

luminous_spirit: shalom No Church