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ALL WALES POLICE PENSION BOARD
21st March 2016 @ 11:00hrs, MRC, Llandrindod Wells
Attendance / Apologies:Attendance
Board members
- Mr Geoff Petty –Commissioner’s Treasurer– South Wales Police - (Chair)
- Supt Tony Brown – Superintendents’ Association
- Mr Clive Cowey – NARPO representative – Dyfed Powys Police
- Mr Eric Evans – NARPO representative – North Wales Police
- Mrs Sandra Evans – NARPO representative – Gwent Police
- Mr Alan Greaves – NARPO representative – South Wales Police
- Mr Edwin Harries – Director of Finance – Dyfed Powys Police
- Mr U Hussain – Chief Finance Officer – South Wales Police
- Mr Mark Milton – Director of Support Services – South Wales Police
- Mr Nigel Stephens – Director of Finance & Administration – Gwent Police
- Mr Tony Williams – Pensions Adviser – Dyfed Powys Police
- Ms Sarah Pope
- Mr Huw Trainor - North Wales Police
Previous Action Table
Action Details: / Owner: / Duedate: / Action Status:
1 / Raise Indemnity Insurance with insurance providers for clarity on whether it is needed for the Board. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / Ongoing
2 / Pursue the ESA issue further by writing a letter of discontent from the All-Wales Pension Board to the Scheme Advisory Board. / Mr Petty / 31 October 2015 / Ongoing – Mr Petty updated members of the SAB January 2016 meeting minutes – Home Office clarity still awaited.
3 / Consider if those members who are entitled to payments following GAD v Milne and who are terminally ill can be paid as a priority. / Board Members / ASAP / Complete
4 / Terms of Reference to be amended for sign-off by Commissioners and Chief Constables at the All-Wales Policing Group’s January meeting / Mr Petty/Mr Hussain / Jan 2016 / Complete
5 / Dyfed Powys pensions audit to be circulated / Mr Harries / ASAP / Complete
6 / Director/s of Finance to update the Board on numbers and the various types of retirements at a future meeting (also, to be added to the Training Matrix). / Director/s of Finance / Next meeting / Ongoing – item included on training matrix and an agenda item for June meeting
7 / Produce a document of roles and responsibilities (scheme administrators, forces, officers) to include signposts for AA/LTA advice. / Mr Petty and Mr T Williams / Next meeting / Complete
8 / Mr G Williams and Mr D Young to ensure that customer surveys/satisfaction indicators will form part of the pension provider’s tender document. / Mr G Williams Mr D Young / ASAP / Complete
9 / Enquire with Eversheds, Capita/Mouchel and internal staff from the four forces if they are willing to provide training at future Boards to cover each subject area within the training matrix. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / Ongoing as standard agenda item
10 / Circulate FAQS and relevant documentation used at Dyfed Powysto assist the training process. / Mr T Williams (via Ms Pope) / Next meeting / Complete
11 / Train on the CARE scheme at the next meeting. / Mr Trainor and Mr T Williams / Next meeting / Ongoing – Huw Trainor to provide training at June meeting
12 / Add ‘legal challenges’ to the risk register. / Mr Petty/Ms Pope / Next meeting / Complete
13 / Provide an annual report to the Welsh Scheme Managers. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / Ongoing
14 / Identify and circulate trends of officer opt outs / Calum Macleod / Next meeting / Ongoing
15 / Forward examples of good practice for performance to Ms Pope for circulation. / Mr Petty and Mr Milton / Next meeting / Complete
16 / Send pension’s administrator’s performance reports for 2015 to Ms Pope for circulation. / Forces Directors/Assistant Directors of Finance / Next meeting / Ongoing – an agenda item for June meeting
2. Previous minutes:
The previous minutes of the meeting held in December 2015were agreed as a true and accurate record.
Members discussed action 15 in detail. Mr Hussain suggested that in terms of administrators’ ‘good practice’, a review of what Welsh members get from providers could be expedited to establish common themes.
Mr Milton added that forces and administrators should provide more timely communications to members of the pensions’ schemes as ultimately, there are more changes to come. Mr Petty agreed that the Board should continue identifying good practice, not necessarily within the public sector, and align a communication protocol accordingly.
3. Presentations
Mr Petty welcomed and thanked Police Clubs Financial Managing Director, David McAuley and Director, Adam Reading for attending today’s Board.
The attached presentation was received by members and discussions ensued around the LTA/AA calculations. Members agreed that it was becoming more and more evident that officers must seek independent financial advice before retirement.
Members agreed to further consider holding a pension’s seminar for officers to attend and learn more about the complex nature of pensions and the need for independent advice rather than reliance on administrators. Further details will be discussed in due course.
4. Risk register
Mr Petty informed members that there were no unduly high residual scores on the register which continue to be monitored at each Board meeting.
Mr Hussain added that South Wales Police internal auditors TIAA were due to commence a review of risk with the aim of fully embedding risk into force governance. The Pension’s risk register could be reviewed in line with the TIAA recommendations in light of the new learnings.
Ms Evans commented that risk 7,having a residual score of 7 seems low considering the amount of officer discontent with the service currently provided by Capita. The Board agreed that they will be looking closely at feedback via customer surveys on the providers’ service provision.
5. Code of Practice for The Pensions Regulator
Mr Petty updated members on the ‘Governance and Administration of Public Service Pension Schemes – Code of Practice 14 – The Pensions Regulator’. The ‘Code of Practice’ details responsibilities for Scheme Managers and members of Pension’s Boards and also includes knowledge and training requirements.
Mr Petty requested that members familiarise themselves with the document and requirements within.
Members were further informed that the structure of the annual report will mirror requirements detailed within the Code. It was discussed that Eversheds may be invited to a future meeting to train on the requirements of the Code.
Action: Mr Petty to consider inviting Eversheds to a future Board meeting to train onrequirements within the ‘Code of Practice’.
Mr Greaves mentioned that on page 17 of the document, under item 59, it states:
The regulator will provide an e-learning programme to help meet the needs of pension board members, whether or not they have access to other learning.
Mr Williams confirmed that he could send that link to members.
Action: Mr Williams to circulate the Pension’s Regulator e-learning link to members.
Mr Stevens suggested that now the Board had been in existence for 12 months, it would be beneficial to expedite a self-assessment of performance and expectations for the next 12 months. Members agreed that this should be considered at the next meeting.
Action: Mr Petty to include ‘12 month self-assessmentof Board performance’on the next meeting agenda.
Mr Hussain further suggested that self-assessment should be linked to the training programme of which the Board could potentially procure training for based on this. Mr Petty added that he would put the question to James Hurley as a national requirement.
Action: Mr Petty to raise self-assessment training as a national requirement with James Hurley.
Ms Evans stated that the document raises issues that are not just police related but cover all public sector which may cause confusion for officers reading the document. Mr Petty explained that the Board will consider those points within the document that are relevant to police only. Mr Stevens added that the Board has not endorsed the whole document for policing purposes but considers the salient policing aspects only.
6. Administration Tender update
Mr Stevens informed members that the tender process was ongoing but on the cusp of approval, the 10 day alcatel will commence thereafter. On the 1st October 2016 the contract will come into effect with current arrangements extended until then.
The contract is 3 years + 2 with a customer satisfaction measurement built into the specification.
Action: Mr Stevens to communicate the outcome to members when the pension’s administration contract approval is finalised.
7. Opt out data
Mr Williams informed members that he and Mr Trainor have looked at the numbers of officers opting-out of the police pension’s scheme, finding that the percentage is quite high. Officers are not fully aware of what they are opting into and relying on word of mouth rather than professional guidance.
Members agreed that more needs to be done to ensure the benefits of opting in are widely circulated. Mr Williams agreed to circulate the findings, with further discussions around communication to be discussed at the next meeting.
Action: Mr Petty to add ‘communicating the benefits of opting into the police pensions scheme’ to the next meeting agenda.
Ms Evans queried the financial impact of voluntary exits of which Mr Stevens replied that it’s fully funded at present.
Mr Hussain added that employer’s contributions are likely to go up following the Chancellor’s recent announcement.
Mr Petty explained that the cost cap hasn’t been fully thought through and if employer’s rates change, the ramifications may impact on the employee or Terms of the Scheme. Subsequent update - it has been confirmed that changes to the discount rate will not impact on employee contribution rates.
8. ‘Pensions Challenge’ update
Mr Williams updated members on the current status on the Pensions Challenge. The ET mechanism is picking up selected test cases with the Fire Brigade case also ongoing. The government have not yet received any claims but are in the process of preparing a response.
The Federation have not changed their position (not supportive) as the claimants are unlikely to be successful.
If they are successfulhowever, it could result in more than 6,000 officers re-admitted into previous pension schemes (either the 1987 scheme or the 2006 scheme) and compensation awarded.
Mr Stevens queried why Dyfed have 10 claims compared to Gwent and South Wales with 39 and 30 claims respectively. Mr Milton explained that this was primarily due to recruitment cycles.
9. Dyfed Powys Internal Audit report
Members discussed the circulated audit report for Dyfed’s internal controls for pension’s arrangements.
Mr Harries explained that substantial assurance was pleasingand the one issue to be considered is resilience for Mr Williams. Mr Petty added that the findings sets a benchmark for other forces. South Wales Police internal auditors will assess pensions as part of the 2016/17 plan, Gwent’s plan will be checked for this.
10. Draft Annual Report
Mr Petty explained to members that the report will be issued to the 8 Welsh Corporations Sole and a draft will be circulated at the next meeting. The report will be kept succinct, capturing the progress over the last 12 months and the plans for the next 12 months.
All previous meeting minutes will be used to highlight the Board’s journey so far. Mr Stevens suggested that within the report should be a section on how each Board member disseminates information raised and discussed at each meeting, of which members agreed.
Action: Mr Petty to draft and circulate the annual report at the next meeting.
11. Any other business
Mr Harries raised the injury pensions return that forces have received from the Home Office. The Board will need sight once forces have finalised.
Action: Directors of Finance to update Board members on the Home Office injury pensions return once finalised.
12. Date of next meeting
28th June 2016 @ 11am,
Media Resource Centre (MRC), Oxford Road, Llandrindod Wells, Powys, LD1 6AH
Action Table
Action Details: / Owner: / Due date: / Action Status:
1 / Raise Indemnity Insurance with insurance providers for clarity on whether it is needed for the Board. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / Ongoing
2 / Pursue the ESA issue further by writing a letter of discontent from the All-Wales Pension Board to the Scheme Advisory Board. / Mr Petty / 31 October 2015 / Ongoing – Mr Petty updated members of the SAB January 2016 meeting minutes – Home Office clarity still awaited.
3 / Director/s of Finance to update the Board on numbers and the various types of retirements at a future meeting (also, to be added to the Training Matrix). / Director/s of Finance / Next meeting / Ongoing – item included on training matrix and an agenda item for June meeting
4 / Enquire with Eversheds, Capita/Mouchel and internal staff from the four forces if they are willing to provide training at future Boards to cover each subject area within the training matrix. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / Ongoing as standard agenda item
5 / Train on the CARE scheme at the next meeting. / Mr Trainor and Mr T Williams / Next meeting / Ongoing – Huw Trainor to provide training at June meeting
6 / Provide an annual report to the Welsh Scheme Managers. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / Ongoing
7 / Identify and circulate trends of officer opt outs / Calum Macleod / Next meeting / Ongoing
8 / Send pension’s administrator’s performance reports for 2015 to Ms Pope for circulation. / Forces Directors/Assistant Directors of Finance / Next meeting / Ongoing – an agenda item for June meeting
9 / Consider inviting Eversheds to a future Board meeting to train on requirements within the ‘Code of Practice’. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / New
10 / Circulate the Pension’s Regulator e-learning link to members. / Mr Williams / Next meeting / New
11 / Include ‘12 month self-assessment of Board performance’ on the next meeting agenda. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / New
12 / Raise self-assessment training as a national requirement with James Hurley. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / New
13 / Communicate the outcome to members when the pension’s administration contract approval is finalised. / Mr Stevens / April 2016 / New
14 / Add ‘communicating the benefits of opting into the police pensions scheme’ to the next meeting agenda. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / New
15 / Draft and circulate the annual report at the next meeting. / Mr Petty / Next meeting / New
16 / Update Board members on the Home Office injury pensions return once finalised. / Directors of Finance / Next meeting / New
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