Kent Health & Safety Group
5 December 2013
Church Farm Hall
Minutes
Attendance List
Doug Chenery KHSG
Stephen King PHSC plc
Carol Cassin KCC
SallyAnne Clark KCC
Gill Wiseman KCC
David Nicholson KCC
Steve Fowler Dover Harbour Board
Chris Pike UPM Tilhill
Greg Buckley Ground Control
Mark Curry Ground Control
Gary Hewitt Gravesham Borough Council
Alan Webb AW Consultancy Ltd
John McNeil AMKW
Dennis South Topbond plc
Stephen Foster P W Reynolds Ltd
Colin Norgate Just4Safety
Apologies for absence
No apologies had been received.
Welcome to members and visitors
The Chairman welcomed members to the December meeting of Kent Health and Safety Group.
Online health & safety systems – are they worthwhile?
The Chairman introduced Lee Stampton and Louise Perryman.
It was explained that Elmstone Systems Limited had been set up in 1999 and owes its existence in the first instance to Pfizers, who gave them a very good knowledge of health and safety systems.
What might make an organisation consider using an online health and safety system? The larger and more complex the organisation, the more benefits they reap.
The key modules are audit, inspection, assessments and incidents.
Lee explained that he had started at Pfizer in 1996 and worked on near-miss reporting and accident investigation.
Mirashare is the name of the system from Elmstone and it allows you to take control of your issues. It enables you to ensure workers and the public are properly protected, and provides overall benefit to society by balancing benefits and risks.
Once Pfizer started using this system, they went from 40 to 12 lost time accidents a year.
What is effective management?
· HSG 65
· OHSAS 18001
· ISO 9001
· ISO 14001
· BS 8555
· Etc
The environmental H&S modules are:
· Incident and near miss management;
· Risk assessment;
· EHS inspection audit reporting;
· Action tracking;
· Ability to develop client specific modules.
How problems develop in growing organisations:
· Paper (don’t need to print it all out when it’s online, you always have the most up-to-date system);
· Adhoc system (each department might a different system, so there is a struggle to bring it all together);
· People (have to rely on people doing something).
Incident and near miss management
· Recording of incidents, near misses and unsafe observation;
· Full investigation process – team, facts, photos;
· Corrective and preventative action handling;
· Investigation approval;
· Management metrics and data;
· Ability to communicate system on multi sites.
Metrics can show you a trend of seasonal incidents or those that happen at a certain time of day – it would take a long time to trawl through paperwork to find if there was any trend.
Action tracking
· Integrated into all the Mirashare system;
· Also operates as stand alone tracking system;
· Uses electronic signature to track closure and approval
· Automatic escalation of overdue actions;
· Summary views and ability to trend by person, issues, department, etc.
Risk assessment
· Complete system for creating many types;
· Risk assessment manual handling, task bask, confined space and environmental impact assessments;
· Improves quality of risk assessment;
· Enables consistent approach to be adopted;
· Enables cloning of risk assessment and emailing to clients;
· Corrective and preventative action handling;
· Manages the approval cycle;
· Acts as a training record;
· Version control and review cycles.
Inspection audit reporting
· Simple to use system
· You define your type of audit.
So, is it worth the trouble?
· In very small businesses, it wouldn’t be worth bothering with an online system, but for a business with 50-60 employees, dealing with a hazardous substance or a multi site business, it would be worth it;
· It saves management time;
· Get things done;
· Improve EHS management;
· Compliance.
Will it help organisations prosper financially?
· Saves time;
· Supports better decision making;
· Saves money.
The following questions were asked:
Q Is there an optimum number of people in a business that would benefit from using this type of online system?
A Under 20 not really likely to use. The costings are based on the size of the company.
Q Can it predict the probability of an incident?
A It can see the trend over the last 12 months, but it can’t look into the future.
Q Are there any councils using the system?
A Several district councils were very interested, but finance prevented them buying it in the end.
Q Does it comply with data protection?
A The system would show non-descriptive terms, but on the hidden pages names would be given.
Q What is the ball park figure of cost?
A Cost varies a lot. There is the setting up fee, and the annual cost of using the system. It would cost between £1,000 and £15,000 a year.
The Chair gave the vote of thanks for a very interesting presentation.
General Business
· Minutes of previous meeting
The minutes of the last meeting were agreed.
· Correspondence
The Secretary reported that he had received information on the next Safety Groups UK meeting, which would be held on 27 January 2014 at the House of Lords. The awards presentation will take place on the same day.
Mark Curry was thanked for attending the last Safety Groups UK meeting. He reported that he had found it very interesting. Part of the meeting had been spent in groups discussing ways of promoting membership.
A health and well-being conference will take place on 4 March at the National Exhibition Centre, Birmingham.
· Programme for 2013-14
The Chair asked members to let him know if they have ideas for speakers for future meetings.
He also reminded the Group that Eversheds, who will be speaking at the meeting next June, have asked for a topic of relevance for the meeting. Contractor management has already been suggested, but any other suggestions should be passed to the Chair as soon as possible.
· Website
There was nothing specific to mention regarding the Group’s website.
· Membership Fees
The Treasurer reported that there are currently 30 paid up members. To enable the Group to break even, 3 more members are required.
· Membership Drive
It was reported that A6 flyers were now available and members were asked to take some to publicise the Group.
· HSE update
Mike Walters had sent an update which included the following points:
· Recent Prosecution in Kent: http://press.hse.gov.uk/2013/packaging-firm-in-court-for-guard-failings/
· UK map of myths: http://press.hse.gov.uk/2013/new-uk-map-of-bogus-elf-and-safety-excuses-londoners-report-most-jobsworth-decisions-to-myth-buster-panel-with-scots-and-welsh-at-other-end-of-league-table/
· Revised Workplace Regs ACoP: http://press.hse.gov.uk/2013/revised-guidance-to-protect-the-health-safety-and-welfare-of-workers/
· Revised Gas Safety Regs ACoP: http://press.hse.gov.uk/2013/operating-safely-with-gas-appliances/
· Consultation on Dichloromethane paint strippers: http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd265.htm
It was also reported that there is a new ACoP on legionella and that the Legionella Control Association and the HSE will be running a duty holder event on 25 March in London, entitled ‘Are there legionella risks in your workplace?’
The British Lung Foundation have just launched a new campaign entitled ‘Take 5 and stay alive’ to raise awareness of the dangers of asbestos.
· Update from other organisations
The next IOSH meeting will take place on Tuesday 10 December when Mike Walters will give an HSE update. Refreshments will be available from 5.30 pm at the Clive Emerson Building at Kent County Showground.
RoSPA have just relaunched their website ‘Safety Matters’.
· Help! / Learning experiences
Mark Curry reported on a recent incident at a site with a swing bar gate. Three contractors were leaving the site and one unlocked the gate and pushed it back. However the gate swung back a little and when the third contractor left, the bar ended up through the passenger window and between the contractor’s head and his head rest. It turned out that the pin was not on the gate, but even if it had been, the gate could not have been fixed back as the heras fence erected by the contractors prevented it from being pushed back fully.
David Nicholson explained that he had been looking into when carpal tunnel syndrome and tendonitis are reportable, and discovered that carpal tunnel syndrome isn’t reportable on DSE work, but that tendonitis is reportable. It was agreed that the simplification of RIDDOR hasn’t made it simple.
· Accidents and dangerous occurrences
There were none reported.
Any other business
The Chair wished all members a happy and safe Christmas.
Next meeting
The next meeting will take place on 16 January 2014 when Richard Palmer of Medi Aid UK Ltd will give a presentation on Trauma and the golden hour.
Meeting Number 478 - 5 -