FUTURE OF OLDER PEOPLE’S PROVISION
CONSULTATION – Proposal for DOROTHY LUCY CENTRE
MEETING WITH RESIDENTS AND RELATIVES AT DOROTHY LUCY CENTRE
Held on Tuesday 29thSeptember 2015
Adult Social Services staff in attendance:
Caroline Hillen Head of Provision ModernisationTeam Older People
Sonny Butler Area Support Manager – West Kent Area
Christy Holden Head of Strategic Commissioning – Accommodation Solutions
Stuart Atchison Senior Human Resources Advisor
Ben GladstoneCommissioning Manager
Sian Dellaway Senior Administration Officer
Christy Holden delivered a presentation on the consultation and the proposal for the Dorothy Lucy Centre which is to close the home and provide alternative services in the independent sector.
Questions
How will this affect infrastructure and how will people reach services and work?
We have spoken to staff about this consultation and their options The resident who lives here will be supported to find alternative accommodation and not all of those who access the services at the Dorothy Lucy Centre are from the local area. Work will be carried out to understand individual circumstances and we will offer training and support to staff.
This will have an impact on those with dementia who have friends here as they do not like change.
There will be no gap in service and we will aim to keep services in the local area and to keep friendship groups together. There will be a slow transition process.
This will have an impact on respite care as priority is given to permanent care in the private sector even though we are willing to pay for respite care.
We will block purchase beds in care homes for an emergency and planned respite, there will be further work carried out to look at the numbers and locations.
How can you guarantee that you will be able to block purchase beds?
This will be agreed at the tendered price. A respite bed in the Dorothy Lucy Centre costs approximately £650 per week, the equivalent in the independent sector is approximately £400. When looking at the current occupancy for in-house services on average this would increase the cost to £800 per week. Respite is crucial but we will not be buying 27 beds, we will be looking at where people come from, and the way beds are purchased will reflect this to ensure there is maximum usage.
The independent provision is reluctant to provide respite care even with a month’s notice given. In the past I have been told to call back 2 weeks before the respite is required, the Dorothy Lucy Centre seems to be a specialist respite service. There are stories in the media about the independent sector not doing a good job.
CQC and the team at Kent County Council do monitor the independent sector and there are services that are of a poor quality but there are also those that are of a good quality and three private homes in Kent have achieved a rating of “Outstanding” with CQC. The services we look at will be experienced in respite care but we can commission respite services that are bookable in advance.
It is cheaper to have your own homes.This seems to be lining pockets and we would not be able to access the beds. We like the day centre service and when I have stayed in other local homes the quality was not there. People do not need en-suite bathrooms to be happy and extra facilities such as gyms are at a cost to the person. This is short sighted to sell and block purchase beds.
What provisions are there for ex-servicemen in care homes?
There are specialist facilities and flats for ex-servicemen that are either in operation or are being developed.
The Royal British Legion have specialist support officers who can help, the legion is for all and ex-serviceman and there is also Help for Heroes.
Where will the Day Centre go and where are other places?
This will be included in the work being carried out alongside the consultation. There will be a continuity of service and places will be found for those affected, who we will work with in this process.
I am concerned about communication as I only found out about this meeting this morning, how can we be confident in this process?
Through this process there can be 1:1s with case managers.The Registered Manager, Julie Parsooramen, is your first point of contact for any questions or concerns during this process. Sonny Butler also agreed to discuss further and collect details.
How will the covenant with Blackburn Lodge, Sheppey be affected by the consultation?
The Ministry of Defence has confirmed they are willing to work with KCC to remove this.
The Day Centre has fantastic staff and from attending the Day Centre the transition to respite is seamless for my relative, as they know the building and the staff. Will people have to go to different Day Services and different places for respite if the Dorothy Lucy Centre closes?
We will work with you as individuals to provide alternatives that are suitable, in the first instance this will be carried out through case managers.
Has the definite decision been made to close the Dorothy Lucy Centre?
No, the decision will be made by the KCC Cabinet Member in January 2016.
Occupancy would be 100% if there was more awareness for the Dorothy Lucy Centre.
All referrals are sent to our in house services in the first instance. If referrals can’t be accepted by our in house services we then refer to the independent sector.
I have two trips scheduled in April and June 2016 which are both paid for; how will you be able to guarantee respite?
This will be done through case management and the Cabinet Member will not make the decision if there is a gap in service.
There were seven proposals in the presentation and these were dismissed so the only option is closure. Why is there only one option and why is it not possible to keep the Dorothy Lucy Centre open?
Part of the work we are carrying out shows that homes with 28 beds or less are deregistering with CQC and those with at least 50 beds are registering. The pattern of smaller homes closing and coming back with increased beds is because it is more viable. We are unable to do this for the Dorothy Lucy Centre as we do not have access to capital; we are open to alternatives and encourage you to share these with us for consideration in the consultation.
What would it take to persuade you to look at another option?
We have shown all the options we looked at with you in the presentation. There needs to be evidence to support other viable alternatives and we would welcome any ideas you have that are viable and sustainable as part of the consultation.
What will happen when the Dorothy Lucy Centre closes?
If the decision is made to close, Adult Social Care would declare the service as surplus. Our colleagues who manage the estate would consider future options which may mean it would go onto the open market and any money for the sale would go back to offset prudential borrowing. The KCC Property Department manages the capital for the building and any beds we purchase are from the revenue budget.
How long will we have left for respite at the Dorothy Lucy Centre?
We will continue to operate as usual until a decision is made on the future of the service in January 2016. If the decision is taken to close, we would then know how long that would take but it is not likely to be past early Spring 2016.
Where are theCare Homes and Day Centres in relation to Hospitals and Community Centres?
KCC will not be building any services and would look for the commissioned services to be near to other facilities.
Have there been any discussions with other Care Homes?
This is work that we will be doing alongside the consultation.
Why were there no documents given out in advance?
This is the usual process as we want to come out and speak with you first and for you to hear the presentation detail.
Would it not be cheaper in the long term to knock down and rebuild?
In 2008 £7 million was spent doing this to the KCC home, Broadmeadow in Folkestone, in the long term this is not a viable option for this site and there are other obstacles that are being looked at. We welcome any alternative proposals to be sent to us that we can consider in this consultation.
How do you know the cost of equivalent care in the private sector if you have not spoken to them yet and how do you know that provision is available?
KCC contracts with care homes for 90% of the placements so we know what provision is available, we would need to secure it through a formal tender.
If you get rid of Kent County Council respite will the private sector bump up prices?
KCC will still be retaining four homes in Tenterden, Margate, Gravesend and Folkestone that have double the amount of beds the homes we are consulting on have available.
How can you ensure quality in the private sector for £400?
We monitor homes in the independent sector and we will not place people into homes that have sanctions on them.
If we move to a new Day Centre where will those in the future go?
The need for nursing and dementia respite is increasing and we are decreasing general frailty for the future as this need is decreasing, and working on alternativeDay Centre provision. Emergency and respite beds will be commissioned as it is known that carer respite is a crucial service that is needed.
Are you legally obliged to build care homes needed for respite?
No. KCC has a statutory obligation to offer respite, not deliver it itself. A tender would go out with what we need and a provider would be contractually obliged to agree to the tender to provide the service. The guarantee of funding for beds such as Kent County Council commissioning beds is preferred, as there is no leading time for the private sector. Health or the Local Authority can block buy beds.
The private sector is reluctant to give intermittent respite how can continuity be guaranteed?
Beds will be booked for the whole time through commissioning. Frequent respite will be considered to get the maximum usage and this will be established as part of ongoing work.
People still need Day Care. If the building is not adequate for Residential why can’t it still be used to run day centre services? Would this not be a viable option to run only as a day centre as the staff here are amazing and I don’t want to go somewhere else.
If you buy a series of beds how will you save money overall and how will these be full all the time?
We will carry out an analysis to look at where referrals go and look at the pattern of usage. Things do need to change.
How can you guarantee you will be able to source beds at short notice?
This will be looked at through the needs analysis work we will be carrying out.
I want to give a big thank you to the Dorothy Lucy Centre on behalf of everyone here.
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